grrdjf Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 Sometimes you don't think about something til you notice it, then you start asking yourself why it's been that way all along. This came up because I was using Master volume to manage (lower) my headphone volume. I'd been using the Multimeter on the Stereo Out channel to measure RMS and Loudness, and when I got my mix to the level I wanted, bounced -- only to discover the bounced result was quieter, because it went thru the Master fader as well. Is there a way to bounce from Stereo Out instead? Is that a bad idea? How come in a Logic project (I've never changed my settings for this so I assume it's just "how things are" by default), there's a separate Master output distinct from Stereo Out, anyway? How come I can't put any audio effects on it--like the Multimeter? Why is this distinction important, a good idea, etc? Sorry, this is a lot of questions. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 I don't why there's still a Master Fader in Logic. I don't have any use for it. It's only confusing people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 It’s mostly intended for surround setups, as a way to adjust sets of outputs together with one fader. For regular stereo projects, I wish it would just be hidden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 It creates exactly the same havoc in a Surround setup, so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 Yes, but at least it has a useful function then, unlike in stereo, where it’s just a confusing partial duplication of the main stereo out functionality. I’d like the ability/preference to hide it, personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PP1965 Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 You can hide it. Select the Master channel, hit Command-0 and select Off from the Channel dropdown list. You can switch it on by selecting Master again from the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 Setting the Master Fader to Off in the Environment disables it but a) does not remove it from the Control Bar (unchecking it from the CB display does) and b) creating another audio or instrument channel immediately re-creates a new Master Fader object next to the disabled one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 The master channel strip has confused Logic Pro users working in Stereo for decades. For the past 24 years I have been a vocal proponent of removing it from the interface completely when working in Stereo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 (edited) The master channel strip has confused Logic Pro users working in Stereo for decades. For the past 24 years I have been a vocal proponent of removing it from the interface completely when working in Stereo. It generally (and intuitively) is wrongly used as a monitoring volume control. Frankly, this is precisely what the GUI suggests. There is a volume fader up top on the Control bar, if it's too loud, you turn it down, I can't blame anyone for doing this. The functionality is needed. It is just implemented wrong, affecting the volume of a Bounce. All that needs to be changed for everyone to be happy is the point where that signal is tapped and attenuated. It needs to be after the point where the Bounce is grabbed. Plain and simple. I cannot understand why this has not been done decades ago. Edited April 20, 2022 by fuzzfilth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 All that needs to be changed for everyone to be happy is the point where that signal is tapped and attenuated. It needs to be after the point where the Bounce is grabbed. Plain and simple. I cannot understand why this has not been done decades ago. I hear you. I can't imagine it being done in digital though, or that would mean that you could potentially bounce a clipped digital signal when you're hearing a fine monitoring? IMO the only way that can be implemented is by being a remote control for an analog monitoring volume level on your interface, the same way we now have remote control analog gain levels at the top of audio channel strips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 Armchair programmer speaking here, it could be grabbed at the point where it's truncated to 24bit, so if you clip the bounce, the monitoring signal will be clipped too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PP1965 Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 creating another audio or instrument channel immediately re-creates a new Master Fader object next to the disabled one. Using my Logic Pro version, see my signature please, this is not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 Using my Logic Pro version, see my signature please, this is not true. Creating a new track does automatically recreate the Master Fader channel strip here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PP1965 Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 (edited) I have checked it out again just in case. For some reasons it works differently for me, it doesn't recreate the Master Fader channel strip for me. Update: It was a simple project with 1 instrument track only. I had switched off the Master Fader and created a new instrument track. In this case the MF wasn't recreated again. BUT if I had created an audio track, it appeared again. Edited April 20, 2022 by PP1965 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 I have checked it out again just in case. For some reasons it works differently for me, it doesn't recreate the Master Fader channel strip for me. Does this occur even if you start a new empty project, not from a template? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PP1965 Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 Update: It was a simple project with 1 instrument track only. I had switched off the Master Fader and created a new instrument track. In this case the MF wasn't recreated again. BUT if I had created an audio track, it appeared again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 i have simply trained my brain, over the years, to not see the master channel strip; i do not see it, therefore it does not exist... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 It would be very useful if it worked slightly different... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichTea Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 On 4/20/2022 at 10:53 AM, fuzzfilth said: The functionality is needed. It is just implemented wrong, affecting the volume of a Bounce. Bugger me - I also use the Master Fader as a "level reducer" when working on a session, which sounds just fine (-14LUFS etc on the Multimeter placed on the Stereo Out at Unity Gain). I just spent 2 hours trying to figure out why my bounces were so quiet compared to my sessions. Why place the BNC button on the Stereo Out if the bounce goes via the Master? It's so misleading. Aargh! Thanks @David Nahmani and @fuzzfilth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 You're welcome! 🙂 8 minutes ago, RichTea said: Why place the BNC button on the Stereo Out if the bounce goes via the Master? The Master is a VCA, meaning it's like a remote control for the gain applied on the all output channel strips (including, but not limited to the Stereo Out). The audio signal goes through the Stereo Out and is bounced, it never goes to the Master (no audio goes through a VCA fader). If you had some audio routed to Output 3-4 then that audio would also be affected by the Master fader position, and yet it's a different audio signal, which could also be bounced. In the screenshot below you see a Stereo Out (with its Bnc button) and an Output 3-4 (with its Bnc button): 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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