Suddenly can't play more than three notes at a time with Logic's synth strings and pads

[neowil]

I've never had this kind of a bug before, but I suddenly can't now play more than three notes at a time with any of the Logic Pro X's own synth strings or pads. Some other Logic's own instruments, like orchestral strings or pianos, work normally. EZkeys pads also work, but there may also be a problem with Native Instruments analog pads, I don't hear any sounds at all from them now.

I can't figure out what the problem is, and I tried reinstalling Logic, but it didn't help.

I've been using a MacBook Pro mid 2012 and Catalina, and previously there was no problem like this.

[David Nahmani]

Is this when you're playing the synth from a MIDI keyboard, or from the Musical Typing window? 

[neowil]

34 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

Is this when you're playing the synth from a MIDI keyboard, or from the Musical Typing window? 

Ok, I first thought it was both, but it seems that it will play back Logic pad notes that I've added in the Piano Roll window or copy/paste a region recorded with Logic orchestral strings to a Logic pad track. (The Native Instruments pads won't play back at all, but it's probably another issue.)

Now that I've tried again, it will occasionally play 4 notes when I've selected a pad, but not more than that. The Beats & Projects display will even show Cmaj7/9, for example, but it won't play back all the notes. 

I found a recent thread on Steinberg forums, where some users complain about similar bugs with Novation Impulse 61. I updated its firmware and installed the recommended Mackie HUI, which is supposed to replace automap, but it didn't help either. 

 

[David Nahmani]

Just now, neowil said:

Now that I've tried again, it will occasionally play 4 notes when I've selected a pad, but not more than that.

So that's when playing your MIDI Controller? Or the musical typing window?

[neowil]

Just now, David Nahmani said:

So that's when playing your MIDI Controller? Or the musical typing window?

That's when I'm playing with my Novation Impulse MIDI keyboard. The display in Logic will show the chord I'm playing but it won't play back. But If I add the notes in the Piano Roll manually, the chords will play back.

It does seem like a MIDI controller bug, but I don't have another MIDI keyboard so I could double check it. 

[David Nahmani]

1 minute ago, neowil said:

That's when I'm playing with my Novation Impulse MIDI keyboard.

Ok, try to choose Logic Pro > Control Surfaces > Bypass All Control Surfaces and try again, can you play more than 4 notes? 

[neowil]

3 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

Ok, try to choose Logic Pro > Control Surfaces > Bypass All Control Surfaces and try again, can you play more than 4 notes? 

Ok, that helped a bit, but didn't solve the issue. Now it will play 4 notes at once pretty much all the time, but chords with 5 notes, like Cmaj7/9, only occasionally.

[David Nahmani]

4 minutes ago, neowil said:

Now it will play 4 notes at once pretty much all the time, but chords with 5 notes, like Cmaj7/9, only occasionally.

What software instrument are you playing? Try to test this with Logic's Classic Electric Piano patch. 

[neowil]

9 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

What software instrument are you playing? Try to test this with Logic's Classic Electric Piano patch. 

Classic Electric Piano works, and Cinema Strings (Sampler) works too.

Fast Pad, Vintage Synth Strings (ES2) or Synth Pop Strings (Retro Synth) won't play back big chords when I'm playing with my MIDI keyboard.

[David Nahmani]

1 minute ago, neowil said:

Fast Pad, Vintage Synth Strings (ES2) or Synth Pop Strings (Retro Synth) won't play back big chords when I'm playing with my MIDI keyboard.

And if you record those chords, does it play them back?

[neowil]

36 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

And if you record those chords, does it play them back?

I now recorded two Cmaj7/9 chords with Synth Pop Strings: I can see the recorded notes in the Piano Roll, but they won't play back normally. In the first I don't hear the 5th note (G), in the latter one I do. I also increased the first chord's G note's velocity in the MIDI editing window, but I don't hear it at all.

Maybe this is a Logic bug after all? FYI, I use Catalina, so the latest Logic updates aren't compatible, and Monterey isn't compatible with my MacBook so I can't upgrade the OS.

Maybe it's noteworthy that I updated the Catalina OS a week ago or so?

Edited May 6, 2022 by neowil
typo

[David Nahmani]

3 minutes ago, neowil said:

I now recorded two Cmaj7/9 chords with Synth Pop Strings: I can see the recorded notes in the Piano Roll, but they won't play back normally. In the first I don't hear the 5th note (G), in the latter one I do. I also increased the first chord's G note's velocity in the MIDI editing window, but I don't hear it at all.

Ok then can you attach that file here? I'll test it out. 

[neowil]

11 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

Ok then can you attach that file here? I'll test it out. 

Ok, I exported that recorded region as a MIDI file, and here it is.

Synth Pop Strings Cmaj79.mid

[David Nahmani]

No I mean attach the Logic project here, with the instrument and patch you've selected:

 

[neowil]

11 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

No I mean attach the Logic project here, with the instrument and patch you've selected:

 

Ok yeah, of course. 

[neowil]

The Logic file as a zip file here. 

Synth Pop Strings test.zip

[David Nahmani]

Fascinating! 🤔

I can't seem to find what the issue is here, I'll continue looking. 

[neowil]

2 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

Fascinating! 🤔

I can't seem to find what the issue is here, I'll continue looking. 

I kind of suspect it's because of my MacBook Mid 2012 just getting old. It's been getting slower, maybe it's starting to have other issues, too. Or maybe the latest Catalina update screwed up something. I think I need to buy a newer MacBook anyway. 😐

[David Nahmani]

3 minutes ago, neowil said:

I kind of suspect it's because of my MacBook Mid 2012 just getting old. It's been getting slower, maybe it's starting to have other issues, too. Or maybe the latest Catalina update screwed up something. I think I need to buy a newer MacBook anyway.

No, there's something going on in Logic Pro since I was able to reproduce on my Mac that has a different OS etc... I'll update this topic if I can find any information regarding this issue. 

[neowil]

2 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

No, there's something going on in Logic Pro since I was able to reproduce on my Mac that has a different OS etc... I'll update this topic if I can find any information regarding this issue. 

Oh ok, interesting... What on annoying issue because I'm working on many new songs right now, and I need strings and pads.

[des99]

In that RetroSynth instance, you have MIDI Mono mode on - turn that off.

(It's in the Extended Parameters - the lowest part of the RetroSynth interface, twirl down the disclosure triangle at the bottom.)

Edited May 6, 2022 by des99

[neowil]

1 hour ago, des99 said:

In that RetroSynth instance, you have MIDI Mono mode on - turn that off.

(It's in the Extended Parameters - the lowest part of the RetroSynth interface, twirl down the disclosure triangle at the bottom.)

Oh dear, you might have solved the "problem". I did the same in ES2, and now they both work. But why on earth were they all suddenly on that mode, because I've never ever touched that switch and I've never had this problem before?  

(The NI analog pads still don't work, they give no sounds at all, but that's probably a separate issue...)

[des99]

It's difficult to know what happened, possibly a controller sent a MIDI mode change message to switch it on. Or possibly some patches have that setting saved as part if the patch. But at least you'll know where to look if something similar happens in the future.

If it *keeps* happening and you want to find out why, and how to stop it happening, that's a separate issue we can investigate - for now, I think you just wanted this issue fixed so you could get back to work!

Edited May 6, 2022 by des99

[des99]

Also - I loaded the same Synth Pop Strings patch from my library, and here it loads with MIDI Mono mode set to ON - so it seems like that setting is baked in, for some reason, as it seems to be with quite a few other patches in that same category.

So it's probably this reason you're getting this, not something your controller is sending...

Edited May 6, 2022 by des99

[David Nahmani]

5 minutes ago, des99 said:

Also - I loaded the same Synth Pop Strings patch from my library, and here it loads with MIDI Mono mode set to ON - so it seems like that setting is baked in, for some reason. So it's probably this reason you're getting this, not something your controller is sending...

Yes I'm wondering if that's a bug in that specific patch. 

And still, I wonder why MIDI Mono mode would prevent all 5 notes from the chord from sounding? 

[des99]

23 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

Yes I'm wondering if that's a bug in that specific patch. 

My thought was perhaps it's something to do with articulations, so that individual notes, on their own channels, can have their own expression etc. Quite a lot of the string patches in that folder at least are set in that mode.

23 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

And still, I wonder why MIDI Mono mode would prevent all 5 notes from the chord from sounding? 

I don't know, something to do with the voice assignment. Perhaps in this mode, the instrument expects just a single note on each MIDI channel, and when it receives polyphonic notes on a channel, tries it's best to make sense of them, but only handles a few notes, or get's confused about overlapping notes. Or perhaps, it *should* sound polyphonically, and it's a bug in the voice assignment. It's anyone's guess really, and the manual is typically light on detail as to what's going on in this mode...

MIDI mono mode in the MIDI spec was always poorly documented and interpreted differently by many manufacturers too...

Edited May 6, 2022 by des99

[neowil]

30 minutes ago, des99 said:

Also - I loaded the same Synth Pop Strings patch from my library, and here it loads with MIDI Mono mode set to ON - so it seems like that setting is baked in, for some reason, as it seems to be with quite a few other patches in that same category.

So it's probably this reason you're getting this, not something your controller is sending...

Ok yeah, so it probably has nothing to do with my controller. But this inspired to me to buy a new MIDI keyboard anyway, some with better playability. 😀 I especially don't like how the black keys feel in Impulse.

I also need to get a newer MacBook because this one is getting annoyingly slow and glitchy, and it's a nuisance when I'm working with Logic. A clean install usually helps a bit and for a while, but there's only so much you can do with it.