Reverb approach?

[keano12]

Curious how many reverbs you may use on a track and types? I was adding some reverb to individual tracks but really it sounded better and more cohesive with a tiny bit on the master and plate for vocals.

[triplets]

Are you using reverb as inserts or with Sends and aux tracks?

[keano12]

Only as sends. I have been mixing years in a DAW for myself but sometimes you look at what you are doing and wonder is there a better a way. I usually use 2 reverbs a short and a long. Just curious about details of others. 

[triplets]

If you want to commit 100 percent of the source to an effect, you use an insert.

If you want to add to the sound and keep the original intact, you use sends.

The majority of engineers use sends for time-based effects.

Edited May 14, 2022 by triplets

[keano12]

Hey Triplets. I always use sends more curious about the type of reverbs and length. Your go to. 2-3 types would you use or keep it more simple?

[triplets]

You use what you like, or based on what the song needs.

Remember that the old mixes we revere as engineers didn't have more than 2 reverb types, maybe a plate and a room, because that's all they had in the analog days with consoles with only 2 aux sends!

So adding a bunch of different reverbs might be fun, but not necessarily a good choice for the coherence of a mix. I keep the number low myself.

[David Nahmani]

The most important thing to keep in mind in my opinion is that there are no rules. Using a single reverb is not wrong, just like using 13 reverbs isn't (necessarily) wrong, if you know what you're doing and why you're doing it. 

First you have to consider the genre you're mixing. You're not going to use reverb the same way if you're trying to reproduce a natural room ambiance (a classical orchestra, a jazz band, a rock band) vs if you're free of those limitation and using reverbs to create artificial spaces (dance music, pop music). 

I agree with triplets that in most cases, 2 or 3 reverbs is enough for the former genres (natural spaces) but even then you may want a specific reverb sound for the lead singer, something different for the drums, something really spacey for the synths ... etc. 

So as long as you have a reason for doing it, then it's not wrong. Sometimes I'll have an instrument have its own special reverb all for himself and still also send it to one of the group reverbs for coherence. 

In most cases, as a starting point, I work with a small number of reverbs (1, maybe 2, but 3 at the most), then if I need more for specific instruments I'll insert them on that instrument's channel strip rather than a bus send and treat them as an effect. But once again, that's a rule of thumb, nothing set in stone. 

[keano12]

Thanks guys the was what I was kind of checking on. Just curious. I tend to overthink. LOL

[David Nahmani]

Just now, keano12 said:

Thanks guys the was what I was kind of checking on. Just curious. I tend to overthink. LOL

Think of music production like an art, not a science. It's like music itself. The number of reverbs you use is similar to the number of guitars you use. Or the numbers of chords you use in a song. Some songs call for a single guitar. Some for four. Some other songs may have dozens of layered guitars. The worst thing you can do to your music is think that you HAVE to do certain things because you've heard that's how it's done. 

[simoncroft]

16 hours ago, triplets said:

If you want to commit 100 percent of the source to an effect, you use an insert.

If you want to add to the sound and keep the original intact, you use sends.

The majority of engineers use sends for time-based effects.

I think it's worth pointing out that if you have one instance of a reverb on a bus, and use sends from the channels you want reverb on, you're creating a much smaller processing overhead than putting a separate instance of the reverb on every channel.

Personally, I tend to use maybe three reverbs on different aux mixes. Typically, I'll have a Waves Abbey Road plate and two instances of Relab Developments LX480; one for a fairly tight room and the other for a bigger space. If I'm going for a 'bangier' 1980s drum sound, I'd probably use the Relab Sonsig Rev-A, then gate it if I'm really going full Phil Collins!

[simon.a.billington]

Generally 2 global, one for width the other for depth.  But then single or groups of instruments might get supplemented if needed.  

A classic example is putting extra reverb on an ambient pad.  If I have several pads I might just make that reverb accessible to the group.  Or maybe I just wanted to put some extra "air" around something.

Reverb choice is often an aesthetic one to match the source, the genre and the job it needs to do.

+1 for that Abbey Roads Plate, that can be great for drums and percussion as well as anything you might need a dark, dense reverb.  The aforementioned ambient pad might be a good example of that, especially in a lofi setting.

[keano12]

1 hour ago, simon.a.billington said:

Generally 2 global, one for width the other for depth.  But then single or groups of instruments might get supplemented if needed.  

A classic example is putting extra reverb on an ambient pad.  If I have several pads I might just make that reverb accessible to the group.  Or maybe I just wanted to put some extra "air" around something.

Reverb choice is often an aesthetic one to match the source, the genre and the job it needs to do.

+1 for that Abbey Roads Plate, that can be great for drums and percussion as well as anything you might need a dark, dense reverb.  The aforementioned ambient pad might be a good example of that, especially in a lofi setting.

Width and depth isn’t that similar kind of?

[David Nahmani]

1 minute ago, keano12 said:

Width and depth isn’t that similar kind of?

Width is lateral (left to right) whereas depth is front to back. 

[simon.a.billington]

On 5/17/2022 at 1:05 AM, keano12 said:

Width and depth isn’t that similar kind of?

What David said...

So to better distinguish the too, the depth is darker and longer, with more character, but also more narrow.  The bigger the conceptual space, the further away the back walls are, the more narrow the imaging gets.  Also the longer it takes to return to the listener.

With width, it's often brighter shorter, more early reflections, closer.  The smaller the space the more intimate the sound.  Bigger spaces might have a more prominent slapback delay.  But because you can't make it wider than 100% of what the the reverb receives, you need to use a stereo imager to widen it further.  

With that in mind, I don't often pan elements to the extremes, I'll leave a little space for the reverb to fill the very sides.  I also like to mix and match reverbs too.  As you can probably tell I don't just put on something pretty and hope for the best.  The reverbs I choose has to compliment the production.  

Often the depth reverb is a convolution, like Space Designer, Waves IR1 or EW Spaces.  That way you have choice of a whole lot of spaces with character.  Maybe instead of a closing a nice Hall a Garage or Warehouse might better compliment the production, especially if it's something gutsier or edgier. Styles like punk, rock, of lofi might benefit from that kind of approach. Often the space with require a but of eq so as to be a better fit.  

I did try character spaces on the width reverb, but it didn't work out too well.  Because its so close tends to mess with the transients to much and makes everything more dark and dense and not very nice.  It's better achieved with the depth reverb as that is what will give you the biggest sense of space.

This is all very generally speaking, as with everything there's usually exceptions to rules.

[simoncroft]

A well-mixed record still has a strong sense of front-to-back depth, even if you listen to it in mono. When they start out, many people make the mistake of using overly long reverb times on the lead vocal. Regardless of level, this usually pushes the vocal back in the mix, and makes it sound like the kind of vocal treatment you'd expect from a band that does weddings.

[simon.a.billington]

Absolutely.  I might add that level and pan is the first place people should start with to create depth and dimension.  EQ, compression, distortion/saturation also attributes to it as well.  This is usually where I start.

A well balanced mix does more for depth and dimension than reverb alone.