Dynamic_Notes Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Years ago someone showed me how to set up an Environment Transformer, as a workaround to reduce the velocity of a note on my keyboard which is stuck on 127 and its always worked. The keyboard in question is old and I've been using another keyboard but I need to use the old one again and I've found my workaround no longer works. After backtracking, it does work in 10.6.3 and Im assuming something changed when the new Midi In/Out and Port In/Out features arrived. Im getting the said note, endlessly sustaining/ hanging plus other nasty stuff like a severe drop in polyphony. If anyone can help figure out a solution Id much appreciate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas007 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 If (one note of) your keyboard emits always at a max velocity (127), in addition to hanging (sustain forever) and severe drop in polyphony, I'd suspect there is a MIDI loop going on in your setup. And I don't think that has to do with the max velocity issue (which might be interpreted as such due to the acquired loudness of a same note being repeated endlessly. Anyhow, if you only wish to control the velocity of a given note you could use the Scripter or perhaps more simply the Modifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic_Notes Posted June 3, 2022 Author Share Posted June 3, 2022 To clarify. That part about sustain and polyphony issue has only happened somewhere between 10.6.3 and now. It does sound like some kind of midi loop but its ONLY happening in L 10.7.x. As I said, the workaround/compromise still works perfectly in L10.6.3. It allows me to at least set a static figure for the velocity of the one note. Theres NO sustaining note or note stealing, or drain on the polyphony in that version. Thanks for those other suggestions. Never used the scripter but I'll look at the Modifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas007 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 5 minutes ago, Dynamic_Notes said: Never used the scripter but I'll look at the Modifier Please, keep us posted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Can you upload the project so I or others on the forum can check? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic_Notes Posted June 3, 2022 Author Share Posted June 3, 2022 @Atlas007 Have I got this right - The Modifier won't work as it only inserts into the Midi FX on an Instr channel strip? Im talking about using an External Instrument. This workaround worked in real time and did so flawlessly for years. The best way to describe this is a screenshot. Im trying to upload a pik of the setup in the Environment and the accompanying Environment Transformer but it failed to upload. I changed the name and it still failed. @polanoid This isn't project specific. The workaround worked in all projects 10.6.3 and back. I had it instantiated in my template. In one of the versions of 10.7 something changed and the settings I used no longer works in any project in 10.7.2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 5 minutes ago, Dynamic_Notes said: The best way to describe this is a screenshot. Im trying to upload a pik of the setup in the Environment and the accompanying Environment Transformer but it failed to upload. I changed the name and it still failed. The best way for us to help you troubleshoot this would be to actually get hands-on with your template so that we can experiment with it. 6 minutes ago, Dynamic_Notes said: The Modifier won't work as it only inserts into the Midi FX on an Instr channel strip? You can make it work if you use the External Instrument plug-in on a software instrument track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 6 hours ago, Dynamic_Notes said: the workaround/compromise still works perfectly in L10.6.3. Still we need to know what workaround exactly to be able to help you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic_Notes Posted June 3, 2022 Author Share Posted June 3, 2022 Hi David. I know how to screenshot on the Mac. I transfer any files over to PC as I use that online. Hasn't caused any problems before. I tried dragging the file into the text field and it failed again. I also got a notice saying Im only allowed to upload 1.9??? MB so don't know what that was about. The file is only 456kb - I kept getting this... and this..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Just now, Dynamic_Notes said: Hi David. I know how to screenshot on the Mac. I transfer any files over to PC as I use that online. Hasn't caused any problems before. I tried dragging the file into the text field and it failed again. I also got a notice saying Im only allowed to upload 1.9??? MB so don't know what that was about. The file is only 456kb - I kept getting this... Hey Dynamic_Notes, I will contact you privately to resolve this attachment issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic_Notes Posted June 3, 2022 Author Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) Hi David. Well where theres a will theres a way. I took a screenshot of the screenshot. Who knows, maybe my original is glitchy or something. Resolution not too good but you can see what I mean and what Ive set up. Tell me if you want me to replicate this is inside a 10.7.2,3,4 project or 10.6.3 or both. It works fine in the latter. The only thing I'm unsure of is the Note Off in the monitor (123). I dont know what the G3 0 entry means. I cant fine any info anout it. In any case theres no note stealing or anything like that in 10.6.3 Edited June 3, 2022 by Dynamic_Notes typo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, Dynamic_Notes said: The only thing I'm unsure of is the Note Off in the monitor (123). I dont know what the G3 0 entry means. I cant fine any info anout it. In any case theres no note stealing or anything like that in 10.6.3 G3 0 is the note off (well to be precise, a note on with a velocity of zero) for the G3 notes you played. MIDI CC 123 is mute all notes. So that Transformer should fix the velocity of all incoming A1 notes to 80. Does that not work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic_Notes Posted June 3, 2022 Author Share Posted June 3, 2022 Yes it does work. Flawlessly in 10.6.3 but not in 10.7.2. The G3 I played was just one note played to show the three entries. If I play via the Environment keyboard I dont get the 123 entry.. Is what I m getting normal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Your keyboard controller seems to send note offs as note ons with velocity 0 (which is ok according to MIDI specs), so that transformer will steal ALL note offs! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution polanoid Posted June 3, 2022 Solution Share Posted June 3, 2022 So add a condition Velocity >0 to it and you should be fine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 1 minute ago, Dynamic_Notes said: The G3 I played was just one note played to show the three entries. If I play via the Environment keyboard I dont get the 123 entry.. Is what I m getting normal? Your Transformer affects only the note A1. As for the CC#123 my guess is, it already is present before Transformer. Insert another Monitor before the Transformer to check that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 1 minute ago, polanoid said: so that transformer will steal ALL note offs! YES indeed! You're right polanoid, I hadn't thought of that. 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic_Notes Posted June 3, 2022 Author Share Posted June 3, 2022 Yes the whole idea is for the A only to be affected and has always worked as a good compromise. If I open the pitch setting in the transform window and choose "inside" I can also include my B which has also been dodgy but its seems to be OK at present so Im only giving the A the treatment. Im not sure what you mean by the transformer stealing the note offs. Wouldn't that cause a bunch of hanging notes? I don't get that problem in 10.6.3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 I got an idea why this may have stopped working in 10.7: Apple added MIDI 2.0 support, and the note off = note on with velocity 0 doesn’t exist anymore in the 2.0 specs (velocity 0 is a legal note on velocity there) , so maybe Apple introduced a bug here. nevertheless, the added comparison for velocity > 0 should help you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Just now, Dynamic_Notes said: Im not sure what you mean by the transformer stealing the note offs. Wouldn't that cause a bunch of hanging notes? I don't get that problem in 10.6.3 It should transform your A1 0 into an A1 80 so you would get a stuck A1 note. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 …and if it doesn’t, *please* attach your project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic_Notes Posted June 3, 2022 Author Share Posted June 3, 2022 24 minutes ago, Dynamic_Notes said: Tell me if you want me to replicate this is inside a 10.7.2,3,4 project or 10.6.3 or both. @polanoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic_Notes Posted June 3, 2022 Author Share Posted June 3, 2022 43 minutes ago, David Nahmani said: As for the CC#123 my guess is, it already is present before Transformer. Insert another Monitor before the Transformer to check that. Your guess is correct. Ive loaded L10.7 and Loaded a basic template that only has the Environment Transformer in it plus my two external insruments - and added the condition with 0 Velocity. The A1 still sustained endlessly, but everything else seemed to be OK. I wanted to try again, what I tried the other day. I dragged my Multi Instrument onto the same layer and cabled it between the Physical Input and the Input Notes keyboard. I got partial success again. As soon as I cabled it in, the A1 stopped droning. I could play my keyboard with the A1 playing at chosen velocity (80) The post Transformer Monitor showed the three values as A1-127, A1-80 and 123- 0. The pre Transformer Monitor as A1-127, A1-0 and 123- 0 ...but it introduces another problem - I still cant access my other sound module. My D50 Keyboard is on Channel 1 and my Wavestation is on Channel 3. Once I cable the Multi Instrument in as described I can't trigger the sounds on the WS as normal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, Dynamic_Notes said: added the condition with 0 Velocity. The A1 still sustained endlessly, but everything else seemed to be OK. Attach a project with your environment so that we can help troubleshooting , it doesn't matter if it's a 10.6.3 or 10.7.4 project. Or at least, share a screenshot with before and after monitors and your transformer settings visible. Also to help troubleshooting in an efficient manner, let's troubleshoot one issue at a time, otherwise we get lost in endless possibilities. So for now let's focus on that Transformer and make sure you don't get endless sustain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 2 hours ago, David Nahmani said: It should transform your A1 0 into an A1 80 so you would get a stuck A1 note. which is exactly what he describes in his first post, BTW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic_Notes Posted June 4, 2022 Author Share Posted June 4, 2022 @David Nahmani I'm getting more failures trying to upload 2 screenshots. Will email them to you. I loaded the same template into Logic 10.6.3 which worked fine, then I loaded it into 10.7.2 which did not. They show the 2 Monitors pre and post the Transformer as you requested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 Ok so as you can see, on the first screenshot the velocity of 0 is preserved so the note is turned off, while on the second one it's transformed to 80 and the note sticks (it won't get turned off). As @polanoid suggested earlier (here), setting a condition for a velocity above zero will fix the issue: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic_Notes Posted June 4, 2022 Author Share Posted June 4, 2022 @David Nahmani - Thankyou for your response. A picture tells a thousand words. I didn't take into account the > being over 0. Will try that now and report back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic_Notes Posted June 4, 2022 Author Share Posted June 4, 2022 Unfortunately it didn't work. The A1 drones endlessly and a double click on the Midi Out didn't reset either. Another failed upload (this time it had an error code I think it was -200 ) The screenshot of the screenshot worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 5 hours ago, Dynamic_Notes said: Unfortunately it didn't work. The A1 drones endlessly and a double click on the Midi Out didn't reset either. You're using the wrong condition: you need to select notes with a velocity >=1, not <=1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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