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Misunderstanding about latency


Green_needle
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HI,

I have a project that I need to turn on "Low Latency Mode". But if I bypass all the plugins that are causing delay (or just all the plugins) in the whole track and am just left with the software instrument - I shouldn't get any latency, correct?

 

I'm confused because I did this in the project and still have lots of latency. I realized that maybe I'm misunderstanding the concept of latency - plugins cause latency, and the more plugins you have, you will eventually get noticeable latency which means you gotta turn on "Low Latency Mode". AM I wrong on that??

 

Logic Pro 10.6.1

UAD Apollo

mac OS Big Sur 11.2.1

2.6Ghz i7

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1 hour ago, Green_needle said:

HI,

I have a project that I need to turn on "Low Latency Mode". But if I bypass all the plugins that are causing delay (or just all the plugins) in the whole track and am just left with the software instrument - I shouldn't get any latency, correct?

I'm confused because I did this in the project and still have lots of latency. I realized that maybe I'm misunderstanding the concept of latency - plugins cause latency, and the more plugins you have, you will eventually get noticeable latency which means you gotta turn on "Low Latency Mode". AM I wrong on that??

That's correct, you actually have the right understanding. But Low Latency Mode isn't or shouldn't be thought of as a switch that you flip as you're adding more and more plugins to compensate for inevitable latency issues.

Also that mode actually works with the Buffer I/O and Processing ranges in the Audio section. So if you've engaged low latency and still hearing latency issues; you should experiment balancing those I/O and Processing range settings. You could also try switching between the Multithreading options. There is also the Recording delay option but I personally wouldn't suggest changing that setting until you're better familiar with the other settings. Usually I've found there's no need to change the default delay setting.

I find Low Latency Mode works best for me when using VST instruments. If I'm playing a VST instrument, I want to hear the instrument playing with an immediate response during playback of my comp so I can be in sync when I record. Low Latency mode engaged makes that possible so there is no lag time. Once I've recorded the instrument, I turn off low latency b/c it's no longer required.

The same thing can be said for recording vocals though I don't usually have to use it for that except in rare instances.

Think of it as a way to eliminate or minimize latency when you're recording b/c you don't want it engaged during normal playback as it will bypass some of your plugins.

Hope that helps

iMac Pro 27 | 3.2 GHz 8-Core Intel Xeon W | 256 GB RAM | Radeon Pro Vega 56 8 GB Graphics | Apollo x8p Audio Interface | Monterey OSX | Presonus Quantum 2632 | Celemony | ReVoice Pro | Cubase | StudioOne | Logic 10.7

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can you explain what a VST is? it's very accessible in Ableton and Protools (there's a big drop-down file on the left that says VST), but in Logic i've never seen it.  is it the same as a midi track with an external instrument plug-in attached ?

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"But if I bypass all the plugins that are causing delay (or just all the plugins) in the whole track and am just left with the software instrument - I shouldn't get any latency, correct?"

 

No, bypassing a plugin is not enough to remove its latency, only way is to use LLM, or remove the plugin completely...

Edited by JakobP
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Logic Pro 10.5.1 • OS X 10.14.6 • MBP 15" Early 2013 • 2.4 GHz Intel Core i7 • 8GB RAM • iMac 27 Late 2013 • 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Saffire 6 USB • cheap midi keyboard • Korg NanoKontrol • Roland UM-One mkII • Behringer FCB1010 • Gibson ES335
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6 hours ago, ruth jones said:

can you explain what a VST is?

VST is a plugin format created by Steinberg that is used by most DAWs except Logic and ProTools.

Logic uses the AU format and PT uses AAX.

But many people call a software instrument a VST instrument when they use Logic because of the popularity of the format. So no VST in Logic.

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11 hours ago, Green_needle said:

plugins cause latency, and the more plugins you have, you will eventually get noticeable latency

This is a simplification and is not really correct.

Some plugins cause latency (many do not), some plugins cause a little bit of latency that's barely noticeable, some plugins cause a lot which definitely is noticeable.

Some latency can be compensated for without delaying your signal (eg, by reading the contents of the track early), other latency cannot (eg on realtime incoming signals). It's not the case that "the more plugins you add, the more latency you get", because you could be adding 500 plugins that all don't cause any latency at all.

It's complex (unless you have very simple projects), and it's very situation-dependent (what plugins you are using on what tracks and busses and outputs etc). If you hover your mouse over a plugin Logic will tell you the latency it's causing (apart from the bug on Monterey).

Edited by des99
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Posted (edited)
On 6/29/2022 at 7:57 PM, Maestro777 said:

That's correct, you actually have the right understanding. But Low Latency Mode isn't or shouldn't be thought of as a switch that you flip as you're adding more and more plugins to compensate for inevitable latency issues.

Also that mode actually works with the Buffer I/O and Processing ranges in the Audio section. So if you've engaged low latency and still hearing latency issues; you should experiment balancing those I/O and Processing range settings. You could also try switching between the Multithreading options. There is also the Recording delay option but I personally wouldn't suggest changing that setting until you're better familiar with the other settings. Usually I've found there's no need to change the default delay setting.

I find Low Latency Mode works best for me when using VST instruments. If I'm playing a VST instrument, I want to hear the instrument playing with an immediate response during playback of my comp so I can be in sync when I record. Low Latency mode engaged makes that possible so there is no lag time. Once I've recorded the instrument, I turn off low latency b/c it's no longer required.

The same thing can be said for recording vocals though I don't usually have to use it for that except in rare instances.

Think of it as a way to eliminate or minimize latency when you're recording b/c you don't want it engaged during normal playback as it will bypass some of your plugins.

Hope that helps

So just one more thought about LLM.  LLM is nothing much other then a temporary plugin disable switch.  As noted earlier, trying to manually disable plugins in logicpro does not eliminate their latency.  But LLM does disable them in a way that their latency is gone.  They are totally disabled so you don’t get their processing either.  Also LLM only affects plugins that are in the signal path of the live track you’re trying to record to.  Other plugins in the project which are latent will continue to be processed.  In some cases there can be plugins on other totally unrelated AUX tracks that don’t get disabled by LLM but they do contribute to the entire project being delayed in order to compensate.  So in those cases LLM mode won’t help you.

 

Edited by Dewdman42

OSX 12.x (Monterey) on OpenCore - Logic Pro 10.7.4, VePro7, Mainstage3 - 5,1 MacPro 3.46ghz x 12 96gb ram

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