Two random bars with odd timing

[Steve Z.]

I recorded a drum track in Logic by tapping it in with midi (using a keyboard and/or Logic remote). Note that this project has a tempo set, but that's only because it is required that I set one. I'm essentially ignoring it, as I recorded a live acoustic guitar, then layered vocals and the drums I mentioned above. So I do not need to fit with a grid or follow a tempo. I'm essentially treating my midi drums as if I am recording audio, totally disregarding any grid. They sound good throughout the song except for a roughly 2 bar span where they get weird.

I need to do a few punches with the drums, so I created a new track for those, but for some reason there is a span of about 2 bars in my original drum track where the time just gets "off" completely before going back to "normal. During those 2 bars, the playhead suddenly moves ahead quickly , but then goes back to "normal."Quantize is set to "off."

This timing oddity is passed on to my new punches on a different track. No matter how I perform the part, it is "off" in that same 2 bar area.  

I'm thinking I am missing some crucial setting or something but don't know what it might be. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks.

[Atlas007]

If the playhead's movement changes traveling speed, that usually mean there are tempo changes recorded in the Tempo Global track. You could delete those changes (tempo) points either directly in there or from within the Tempo List editor.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Atlas007

[Steve Z.]

10 hours ago, Atlas007 said:

If the playhead's movement changes traveling speed, that usually mean there are tempo changes recorded in the Tempo Global track. You could delete those changes (tempo) points either directly in there or from within the Tempo List editor.

Thanks Atlas007, much appreciated. This is super helpful and gives me a place to look and hopefully solve the issue, when I get back to it later. Will let you know how it goes!

[Atlas007]

1 hour ago, Steve Z. said:

Will let you know how it goes!

Sure! Please do!

[Steve Z.]

Atlas007,

Quick update since you were helpful enough to chime in.....

Messed with it a bit and when I got rid of any events in the tempo global track, it threw everything off even more, so I stepped away from that "issue" and just worked on other aspects of the recording. So the problem remains.

I'm learning something though: I'm sure all of these issues/oddities started as are a result of me not understanding how tempos work with midi tracks, etc. In other words, just because I am "tapping in" midi drums in real time (a live performance), that doesn't mean that they are audio files and behave as such. I perceived that as being the same as recording audio in real time, but it really isn't. Midi tracks all have some relation to the tempo. I have to train myself to remember that, I think.

So even though I look at this particular project tempo as "irrelevant" because I recorded it with no click, the moment I added midi drums it became relevant.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[David Nahmani]

Normally you could perfectly disregard the grid and record your MIDI notes anywhere you want with no reference to the grid, without using a metronome. That's not a problem as long as you don't intend to use the grid at some point (for example for editing purposes). 

Reading your original post I realize that the first issue that you list is that the playhead speeds up in a specific location of your project. That means there were tempo changes there. The tempo changes are not created spontaneously so you must have done something to create them. Without knowing what you could have done, or how or why, it's very challenging for anyone of us to guess what could have gone wrong - and even more challenging to tell us what to do to fix it. 

One workflow I recommend is to save new versions of your project as you go along. For example you create Song X then 20 minutes lates you choose File > Save As and save a new copy as Song X.2, then 20 minutes later Song X.3 etc. That way at least you can go back in history to an earlier version that did not have the problem (your tempo changes) and you don't lose more than 20 minutes of your work. 

Otherwise you could try to go back in your undo history (Edit > Undo History) and try to see when the tempo changes were created. Or you could choose File > Revert To > ... and see if there are any auto-backups available. 

[Steve Z.]

6 hours ago, David Nahmani said:

Normally you could perfectly disregard the grid and record your MIDI notes anywhere you want with no reference to the grid, without using a metronome. That's not a problem as long as you don't intend to use the grid at some point (for example for editing purposes). 

Reading your original post I realize that the first issue that you list is that the playhead speeds up in a specific location of your project. That means there were tempo changes there. The tempo changes are not created spontaneously so you must have done something to create them. Without knowing what you could have done, or how or why, it's very challenging for anyone of us to guess what could have gone wrong - and even more challenging to tell us what to do to fix it. 

One workflow I recommend is to save new versions of your project as you go along. For example you create Song X then 20 minutes lates you choose File > Save As and save a new copy as Song X.2, then 20 minutes later Song X.3 etc. That way at least you can go back in history to an earlier version that did not have the problem (your tempo changes) and you don't lose more than 20 minutes of your work. 

Otherwise you could try to go back in your undo history (Edit > Undo History) and try to see when the tempo changes were created. Or you could choose File > Revert To > ... and see if there are any auto-backups available. 

Thanks for that info and the suggestions. I agree, I figured I probably did something accidentally to create a tempo change I didn’t want. I think this likely goes back to a time when I attempted to create a tempo map so that I could then use the “drummer” but then abandoned the idea. Like you said though, all speculation until I can find out what happened. Yes, the “create new versions as you go” is a good idea, so noted. Thanks David.

[Atlas007]

To fix your issue with the MIDI going all over the place, I would try to SMPTE lock the MIDI events and region at stake, before proceeding with the Tempo (track) edition. That should normally keep the locked MIDI events and regions from moving (relatively from the real time aka mm:ss).

[Steve Z.]

8 hours ago, Atlas007 said:

To fix your issue with the MIDI going all over the place, I would try to SMPTE lock the MIDI events and region at stake, before proceeding with the Tempo (track) edition. That should normally keep the locked MIDI events and regions from moving (relatively from the real time aka mm:ss).

Thank you! Will do that for sure.