"Bypass All Control Surfaces" each time connecting / disconnecting MIDI controller or device

[emildellert]

Hello,

after digging through every forum I could find about this topic I'm still having problems and getting really frustrated with this issue.

After booting Logic the "Control Surface Setup" window appears automatically when I have devices connected. I then delete everything there is and also check the section in "Logic Pro > Control Surfaces > "Bypass All Control Surfaces". As soon as I connect or disconnect any device I have to do this process again. (Deletes devices in the Control Surface window that is popping up and bypassing all control surfaces again). 

This drives me nuts since this has started happening a year back or so.

I have deleted everything I could find in terms of MIDI devices or ".bundles" (as this is happening not just with the nanoKONTROL 2) and tried to reset everything but it still happens. 

What I do think is weird is what it says at "Output / Input Port" that can be seen in the picture attached. Sorry if this topic has been discussed multiple times but I can't seem to get it fixed myself.

 

 

[des99]

So do you not want the nanoKontrol to be installed as a control surface? This is easy enough to achieve, if you don't want to use the functionality that comes with these devices, and just want to use them as a dumb/generic MIDI controller...

Or if that's not the case, I'm not sure what the problem is, exactly.

[emildellert]

1 minute ago, des99 said:

So do you not want the nanoKontrol to be installed as a control surface? This is easy enough to achieve, if you don't want to use the functionality that comes with these devices, and just want to use them as a dumb/generic MIDI controller...

Or if that's not the case, I'm not sure what the problem is, exactly.

It's not the nanoKONTROL in particular. Happens with my midi keyboard as well. I "installed" the nanoKONTROL once but that didn't change the bypassing of all control surfaces to turn off. 

I used the nanoKONTROL with a customised configuration and my midi keyboard before without having to bypass all control surfaces every time I connect / disconnect them or open Logic.

In short:

- Opening Logic > I have to bypass all control surfaces.

- Connecting / Disconnecting (MIDI) device > I have to bypass all control surfaces.

= The bypassing keeps turning off which - after a year - is really frustrating to do manually.

 

[des99]

9 minutes ago, emildellert said:

It's not the nanoKONTROL in particular. Happens with my midi keyboard as well.

What's your MIDI keyboard? Is it a control surface as well?

Basically, when you run Logic, it scans for any new control surfaces it doesn't already know about, and will install any new ones found and make them available for use. This is generally a good thing. That configuration is saved in the control surfaces preference file.

If you keep deleting them manually, then Logic will just find them the next time you run, which is what appears to be happening.

9 minutes ago, emildellert said:

I "installed" the nanoKONTROL once but that didn't change the bypassing of all control surfaces to turn off. 

I don't understand why you want to install them and then turn them off - hence why I was asking whether you want to just use them as generic MIDI controllers, rather than control surfaces.

9 minutes ago, emildellert said:

Opening Logic > I have to bypass all control surfaces.

I don't understand. Why do you *have* to bypass them?

All this does is turn their control surface functionality off (as well as any of your custom controller assignments, if you're made them), which makes me think you just don't want to use them as control surfaces, but it's unclear to me so far what you are trying to achieve.

If you want to permanently run these controls *as if* bypass is enabled, in short, turning off any control surface functionality, like I say, this is achievable *if* that's what you are trying to do.

If you can confirm that's really what you want to do, and can list any controllers you want to disable in this way, and I'll go into the details...

Edited July 26, 2022 by des99

[des99]

7 hours ago, emildellert said:

What I do think is weird is what it says at "Output / Input Port" that can be seen in the picture attached.

There's nothing weird about this, BTW, they are just the names of the virtual MIDI ports the Korg driver creates to communicate with this device.

[emildellert]

31 minutes ago, des99 said:

I don't understand. Why do you *have* to bypass them?

All this does is turn their control surface functionality off (as well as any of your custom controller assignments, if you're made them), which makes me think you just don't want to use them as control surfaces, but it's unclear to me so far what you are trying to achieve.

If you want to permanently run these controls *as if* bypass is enabled, in short, turning off any control surface functionality, like I say, this is achievable *if* that's what you are trying to do.

If you can confirm that's really what you want to do, and can list any controllers you want to disable in this way, and I'll go into the details...

It often creates delay or a complete chaos with the MIDI data coming in when I don't have them bypassed. For example using expression or modulation will result in the sample not playing or with a big delay and the same with exp / mod input. As if my system can't run it properly when turned on because of too much information.

[des99]

9 minutes ago, emildellert said:

It often creates delay or a complete chaos with the MIDI data coming in when I don't have them bypassed. For example using expression or modulation will result in the sample not playing or with a big delay and the same with exp / mod input. As if my system can't run it properly when turned on because of too much information.

That shouldn't be the case. It's possible you have a MIDI feedback loop going on, which is what it sounds like.

So which troubleshooting path do you want to follow - how to turn off controllers which are causing problems to sidestep the issue and not use them as control surfaces, or how to make them work properly as control surfaces without messing up the MIDI server?

(It's not a case of "too much information" - it's just MIDI data, and Logic can cope with MIDI data just fine - it's orders of magnitudes less data than audio, for example...)

[JakobP]

54 minutes ago, emildellert said:

I used the nanoKONTROL with a customised configuration and my midi keyboard before without having to bypass all control surfaces every time I connect / disconnect them or open Logic.

To stop the automatic installations, go Logic Pro> Control Surfaces>Setup... Under "New" make sure "Automatic Installation" isn't checked. Also uncheck all devices in Preferences>Control Surfaces "MIDI Controllers" tab. Hth...

[des99]

5 minutes ago, JakobP said:

To stop the automatic installations, go Logic Pro> Control Surfaces>Setup... Under "New" make sure "Automatic Installation" isn't checked. Also uncheck all devices in Preferences>Control Surfaces "MIDI Controllers" tab. Hth...

This is part of the configuration, but other things may be required depending on the devices involved. Hence why I was asking for this info before digging in... and trying to confirm whether this is *really* what the OP wants to do.

Edited July 27, 2022 by des99

[emildellert]

1 minute ago, des99 said:

This is part of the configuration, but other things may be required depending on the devices involved. Hence why I was asking for this info before digging in...

I'll be replying tomorrow as its 3 am here, already appreciating the help of you both!

[des99]

Only 1:40am here - I've got a few hours to go...

[JakobP]

12 minutes ago, des99 said:

This is part of the configuration, but other things may be required depending on the devices involved. Hence why I was asking for this info before digging in... and trying to confirm whether this is *really* what the OP wants to do.

You make me curious is this with the config.lua files in mind ? I thought the unchecking of devices in preferences took care of that ? Of course it won't help if you connect a new device, but surely with already known ones ?

[des99]

9 minutes ago, JakobP said:

is this with the config.lua files in mind

The LUA stuff is part of it, but that's new controller handling that was added in Logic 10.5 (iirc).

There is also the older control surface module support that's been in Logic since Logic 5.x. In some cases, both of these things are active, and disabling one of them isn't enough to stop Logic handling the device. For example, things like the MCU have a dedicated control surface module, and there is a list of devices supported in this way. Similarly, there is a wider list of supported devices using the newer LUA stuff, and there is some overlap between them.

I've been having a little look at what's going on with the LUA scripting, and seeing what can be done and how things are implemented in light of my own plans, and it has some interesting features (like being able to auto-create controller assignments in some limited fashion) but I haven't really gone into it in detail yet.

Certainly, my old Korg microKontrol always had a control surface module, which I had to disable because I didn't like Logic's handling of it, and used something else to handle it. This control surface module for the microKontrol is still active by default (but disabled by me), but it also has a LUA script controller support to handle some newer functionality that comes with those features. This is a case in which you'd need to turn off the LUA stuff, *and* also disable the older stuff.

But it's device dependent, of course...

[JakobP]

24 minutes ago, des99 said:

This is a case in which you'd need to turn off the LUA stuff, *and* also disable the older stuff.

I thought (or guessed really) that unchecking "Automatic Installation" in CS Setup takes care of "the old" ones, and the unchecking of devices in CS preferences "the new" stuff ?

Edited July 27, 2022 by JakobP