Søren Posted August 1, 2022 Author Share Posted August 1, 2022 Yes, I get this in a fresh new project with only one guitar track (with big hair harmonics preset). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Søren said: Yes, I get this in a fresh new project with only one guitar track (with big hair harmonics preset). That is very strange. When I create a fresh new project and add an audio track using the Big Hair Harmonics patch, I get a maximum of around -8dB at the Stereo out, no matter what signal I feed that Audio Track (I tried a Test Oscillator at +6dB followed by a Gain plug-in at +24 dB) because the distortion just saturates the signal. See screenshot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Søren Posted August 2, 2022 Author Share Posted August 2, 2022 Yes it's strange. I tried to add clip distortion. The screaming sound dissappeared, but there was still a lot of noise. I changed the input and output gain in clip distortion. Stereo output changed to minus 11,1. There was still a lot of noise though. It didn't sound right. Frustraiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Søren Posted August 2, 2022 Author Share Posted August 2, 2022 Would a DI box help the hot signal in the big hair harmonics preset? I read this in a forum discussing hot signal problems: Try getting yourself a DI box and recording through that. DI’s can tame those “hot” signals by converting the line signal to mic level. A lot of the DI’s also have pads you can engage. I use a Radial DI which has a -15 db pad that can be activated when needed. P.S. Blackouts have a rep for being very hot even for active pickups. P.P.S If you do decide to spring for a DI get a passive one, again I recommend the Radial passive (no I don’t work for them I just really like mine). It costs a little more but sounds good with both active and passive git pickups (not all passive DI’s sound good with passive pickups) it also is a great choice for recording bass and keyboards/synths. Finely it has a ground lift switch, the previously mentioned -15db pad and has the appropriate input/outputs that make it a good choice for a re-amping box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Søren said: Would a DI box help the hot signal in the big hair harmonics preset? Your focusrite interface is a DI already. Depending on the model, do you have a pad on the input you can engage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Søren Posted August 2, 2022 Author Share Posted August 2, 2022 I have this one: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Søren Posted August 2, 2022 Author Share Posted August 2, 2022 I guess it doesn't have a pad that can lower the hot signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 22 hours ago, Søren said: When playing with the big hair harmonics preset it shows minus 11,5, and the stereo out shows 10,4 and is red. How does your signal go from -11.5 dB to +10.4 dB? That's 21.9 dB of gain. Can you share a screenshot showing that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Søren Posted August 2, 2022 Author Share Posted August 2, 2022 Minus 11,5 db is the big hair harmonics preset track. + 10,4 db is the stereo out track. I took a picture with my mobile, but it is more than 1,95 mb so I can't send it. Adding the clip distortion does help, but I don't think it has solved the problem totally, and I don't know, if the clip distortion should be on the big hair harmonics track or on the stereo out track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 1 minute ago, Søren said: I took a picture with my mobile, but it is more than 1,95 mb so I can't send it. Do not take pictures with your mobile. Instead, use the following instructions: 2 minutes ago, Søren said: Adding the clip distortion does help, but I don't think it has solved the problem totally You should not have to use clip distortion at all. Let's first make sure you're using proper gain staging. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Søren Posted August 2, 2022 Author Share Posted August 2, 2022 Ahh thanks! I took a screenshot. Now the stereo out says minus 0,2. I removed the clip distortion before I played. It sounds bad like before. I tried to see videos about gain staging, but I had a hard time understanding it so I don't really know how to do this gain staging thing. I also tried to do different things they recommended in these gain staging youtube videos, but nothing has helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Søren Posted August 2, 2022 Author Share Posted August 2, 2022 I just tried the high end rock preset that is also giving me problems. He the stereo out is + 0,9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Søren Posted August 2, 2022 Author Share Posted August 2, 2022 I just tried this: It stops the screaming sound like the clip distortion did, but there is still a lot of noise on the big hair harmonics preset. Still not the right sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 Try to remove the bus send. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Søren Posted August 2, 2022 Author Share Posted August 2, 2022 That didn't make any difference🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 (edited) You're always going to get a lot of noise on guitar amp plugins with high gain settings, because the noise in your system (your guitar, cabling, and most importantly the pickups) are all generating noise, which is being massively amplified - especially if you are playing the guitar close the computer/screen because the computer and monitor interference makes it's way into the pickups, and also gets amplified. The noise tends to be masked when you're playing, but when you're not playing, guitarists tend to use volume pedals to turn the guitar down before the gain stages, or at least turn the guitar down when they are not playing. Depending on the guitar/pickups, you might need to turn or move away from your computer while recording guitar parts... Edited August 2, 2022 by des99 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 Oh ok I get it, the discrepancy in levels is because you're monitoring a live instrument, so on the channel strip on the left you're getting the level before all the plug-ins, and on the Stereo Out channel strip on the right you're getting the level after the signal has been processed with all the plug-ins. You could insert a gain plug-in at the very top of the High End Rock channel strip to turn down the gain there. But ultimately it's as des99 just explained: it takes a bit of finesse and experience to play those high-gain guitar sounds, and how you touch your strings and mute open strings etc makes a huge difference in the final resulting sound. There's nothing wrong with your plug-ins or the way they sound, your hardware or even your gain settings (except for when you end up overloading the Stereo Out and it clips in the red). You just have to manage your playing style, the pickups you choose, and dial the gain down if that's too much gain for your guitar/pickups. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Søren Posted August 2, 2022 Author Share Posted August 2, 2022 (edited) It still confuses me that polanoid and my internet-guitar-mixer had a totally other sound than mine, and in the video the sound was different too. It is also weird that it is coming out totally screaming, if I don't do this gain plugin trick. I just have the feeling something is wrong, but I don't know. Thanks no matter what. Gonna try putting the gain plugin on the top instead of the buttom, and maybe I should try move the computer further away from the guitar. Edited August 2, 2022 by Søren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 Just now, Søren said: It still confuses me that polanoid and my internet-guitar-mixer had a totally other sound than mine, and in the video the sound was different too. It is also weird that it is coming totally screaming, if I don't do this gain plugin trick. I just have the feeling something is wrong, but I don't know. Thanks no matter what. Gonna try putting the gain plugin on the top instead of the buttom, and maybe I should try move the computer further away from the guitar. It could be something wrong with your guitar cable, but other than that, a different guitar, different pickups and wiring inside the guitar, a different guitar player... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Søren Posted August 2, 2022 Author Share Posted August 2, 2022 I just tried with the computer further away, and with gain plugin on. + 1,9 on stereo output😔🤷♂️ I have tried different cables and two guitars. I guess I have to accept not using those plugins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Søren Posted August 2, 2022 Author Share Posted August 2, 2022 I played on the video (showed a link earlier - it ain't easy song) with this plugin being used so shouldn't be a question of another guitar player🤷♂️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 The gain should be before all the plug-ins on the audio track's channel strip - not on the Stereo Out. Also the idea is to turn things DOWN, not up, so apply negative gain to avoid clipping (peak meter going red). Again, the issue isn't with the plug-ins themselves, it's with your playing technique when using high-gain guitar sounds. I listened to your samples again and we can hear open strings ringing, noises in between the notes you're playing etc. When playing high gain sound, you need to really focus strongly on: Picking the strings you want to play frankly, with control and determination, and only the strings you want to play, not the other ones. Muting the strings you don't want to play. Muting everything when you're not playing. If you want, try to play again, just a simple power chord, playing it every 1/2 second for example, cleanly, without any open strings ringing. Attach that here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 14 minutes ago, Søren said: I just tried with the computer further away, and with gain plugin on. + 1,9 on stereo output Note - reducing the noise when you're not playing will result in a better sound, but it won't result in a quieter signal overall, it will still be as loud as your guitar is. Your guitar presumably has a volume control - the sound should significantly change as your reduce volume, with less distortion as the signal gets quieter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 32 minutes ago, Søren said: I played on the video (showed a link earlier - it ain't easy song) with this plugin being used so shouldn't be a question of another guitar player🤷♂️ Good point. Then for the sake of comparing tones, try playing the exact same solo through the exact same preset, using the same guitar, and the same audio interface (if you still have access to those)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 3 hours ago, Søren said: Ahh thanks! I took a screenshot. Now the stereo out says minus 0,2. I removed the clip distortion before I played. It sounds bad like before. I tried to see videos about gain staging, but I had a hard time understanding it so I don't really know how to do this gain staging thing. I also tried to do different things they recommended in these gain staging youtube videos, but nothing has helped. One obvious thing: This is definitely not the original Big Hair Harmonics preset that is installed with Logic's factory content. Just compare the order of plug-ins in my screenshot a few posts ago with yours. What happens if you just try the original? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution Søren Posted August 8, 2022 Author Solution Share Posted August 8, 2022 I think everything is working now😃 I had a guitar friend look at the problem. First he couldn't figure out why the preset was all screaming, but buying a more expensive cable helped. I had tried two cables, but they were both bad apparently. Other than that turning the direct monitor on made the preset not scream, and he also chose inst in focusrite control. It was on line. Finally he turned the volume down in logic. So finally it's all good😊 By the way my short recording was just me making noise. I wasn't playing anything. Wanted to show the noise🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 So you weren't using the instrument input? Guitars are not line level instruments, that's what the instrument input/option is for... (I nearly mentioned this, but chose not too - my bad.) Bad cables will also make the noise problem I mentioned regarding monitors and pick ups worse too. Glad you got it sorted anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Søren Posted August 8, 2022 Author Share Posted August 8, 2022 Inst on focusrite, yes ... but line in focusrite control. I don't know, if it means something. Just telling what he did. To me it seemed the cable and direct monitor made the difference. Thanks😊 really happy it's fixed. Thanks for all the help in this forum. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 Great, good to hear you were able to sort this out. Thanks for letting us know! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 11 minutes ago, Søren said: Inst on focusrite, yes ... but line in focusrite control. The jack input on those interfaces handles both line level inputs (eg from a keyboard) and instrument level inputs. When using a guitar, "INST" should be selected, which configures the input for the correct level (the "INST" light on the front of the interface will be lit to tell you this). If INST is unselected (and not lit on the front panel), that input behaves as a a line level input. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.