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Sampling Advice & Auto Sampler


Nunstummy
Go to solution Solved by des99,

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I have a cheesy Casio with no midi and only a headphones output jack.  I Want to create a sampled instrument for about 50 of the patches.  My plan was to sample every note via my audio interface in 1 file by playing them, then auto chop to assign to notes - then repeat.  That would give me 50 individual sampler instruments (one for each tone/patch).  I’m under the impression Logics Auto Sampler only works with Logic instruments or maybe external instruments with midi?  Any advice or tips on how to do this?

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AFAIK, Auto Sampler does indeed require MIDI interaction with the instrument to work.

Which precise model of Casio are you dealing with? Have you considered browsing the web to find out if that work has already been done? Perhaps it even already exist a plugin the\at emulate same? 

BTW, perhaps sampling every single note might not be necessary… Very often every 4 or 5 half steps suffice to render good results.

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You don't need to use Auto Sampler - just record the notes manually in one long file, and then create a sampled instrument from the recording using Sampler - using it's Keymap-inherited features, it will create an instrument for you from the sliced audio recording. It automates a lot of those tedious tasks.

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45 minutes ago, Atlas007 said:

Have you considered browsing the web to find out if that work has already been done?

Yes.  There are some ‘casio’ sample packs out there and I have Triple Cheese by U-He that is similar, but I want to practice this sampling skill and it’s a good excuse.  Just curious if I should use multiple velocity layers, sample every 3rd or 4th semi-tone - stuff like that.  Curious if there’s a best practice out there.

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Honestly, it's *really* dependent on the source, and is something that every samplist must assess by doing some tests and working out their required parameters.

For example, if the source Casio simply changes volume via velocity, and there are no other tone changes, there is no need to sample velocity layers - just do one high velocity sample, and use the sampler for implementing velocity sensitivity.

If the tones are very simple, you can generally get away with sampling at wider intervals, but if there are a lot of tonal changes across the keyboard, you'll want to take finer grained sample pitches. Do some tests to see what's acceptable.

(I will often sample all the keys anyway, and then determine what samples to use and map later, but that's my approach that gives me a good capture, and then gives me options later on).

You'll also need to assess modulation options, and how best to deal with those, and many other things that you get a feel for with experience. And factor in sample quality and memory requirements too, for the given destination formats you plan on making.

So just like producing a song, there are no "best practices" as such - every instrument is different, and the optimal settings for it, and your use cases, need to be assessed for each.

Edited by des99
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Agreed - if there is filtering involved (Vel > Filter, Vel > Env > Filter Amount), or velocity switches within the target synth, then go for multiple velocities. If not, @Des99 is 100% correct, it's a fruitless endevour.

I usually sample on minor 3rds with 4-7 velocities for our big instruments, otherwise, I rely on the reasonable power of Sampler and it's filters, etc. do make the sound dynamic and pleasing to the end user.

Good luck!

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Ok - NOW I have midi working on this cheapo Casio, so I’m inclined to use Logic auto sampler.  I bought this CTK-591 on a whim for $30, just to experiment.  Frankly, I wasn’t expecting it to be working, but after a little cleaning and jiggling some connections, it’s working great.  Everything seems to be working as designed.  I’ve owned many Roland, Korg and Yamaha keyboards that I used mainly for live performance, but I’ve never owned a Casio!  It has 255 presets, they call ‘tones’ and about 12 drum kits, plus dozens of songs and even built-in ‘lessons’.  Yes - the tones sound cheesy, but that was my whole reason for picking it up.

I created a multi-instrument in the Logic Environment, connected an old-school 5 din midi cable, and a 1/4 stereo headphone jack to a 1/4 cable splitter and into 2 channels of my audio interface.  Fortunately, when something is in the headphone jack, it cuts off the built-in speaks PERFECT!

While testing, I’m sending midi I dragged into Logic, when all-of-a-sudden, the bank and program names are suddenly pre-populated?  How did that happen? Is there some SYSEX handshaking that happens automatically in Logic?

With Logic controlling the 255 tone selection, I start thinking about those cheesy drum kits.  I enable midi channel 10 on the multi-instrument object and boom! In pops a list of the 12 drum kits!  How is this happening?  I only have 1 midi cable plugged into the “In” on the Casio.  How is Logic getting the preset/tone list and the drum kit names? 

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It's probably just using the GM standard, so the voices and names are all standardised, and that's what the names bank of a multi-instrument defaults to.

It's not retrieving them from the synth, it's a standard list that everything supports.

Edited by des99
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25 minutes ago, des99 said:

It's probably just using the GM standard,

I’ll look into that - Thanks! Usually, I enter (paste) the preset titles into the multi-instrument object.  I’ve done this for a couple of Roland ROMplers many years ago and although I don’t use external synths very much, it all still works fine. Barely a week goes by that a YouTube or Reddit user doesn’t ask about controlling an external synth from within Logic or another DAW.  My Casio adventure is fun, but not my general strategy around sound sources as I prefer virtual instruments, both the Logic delivered and 3rd party. But… for $30… 

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