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Delay in playback when navigating with marker list!?


gjstuckpig

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i made a post last week about marker list nonsense, turns out navigating with "alt+click" in the marker list can be very finicky, but i found some workarounds.  i'm just now noticing a 1-1.5 sec delay in playback when i navigate by clicking a marker in the marker list while playhead is moving (continuous play).  HOWEVER - delay doesn't happen with any other form of marker navigation - "next marker" "previous marker" or highlighting a marker in the global track and using "Shift+Space"..... or any other form of normal navigation, only alt+clicking the marker in the marker list.  the playhead will relocate to the top of the marker and continue playing properly, but i won't hear the audio for the first 1 sec.  

seems like a small issue but we will be utilizing timecode and triggering an entire show, i'd love to be able to get rid of that one second delay and just rely on the grid, for ex: put audio and automations and timecode triggers right on the 8.1.1.1. and have faith that they will all work properly.

it's definitely not my computer or my I/O buffer or anything like that, i'm maxed out on RAM and processing power lol and the project currently has only a couple of plain audio tracks, i have restarted my computer, and i'm all updated to latest versions of everything. 

seems like a (wait for it) *BUG* to me. 😃  

help! 

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All other forms of relocating the playhead while playing will not cause any kind of delay. That’s all the proof I need that it’s not RAM or resources or anything like that. The project is very very simple with no plugins or software instruments or anything at all.

also it’s not latency - a description of the behavior would be more like seeing the playhead move for 1 second then unmuting it, instead of hitting play then one second later the playhead moves. 

please try it so you can see/hear what I’m talking about? 

create a few markers on a project. Then try these 4 things:

1.) while playing, click the marker in the global marker track to highlight it, then hit shift+space

2.) while playing, shift+click in empty space 

3.) while playing, hit your shortcuts for “go to previous marker” and “go to next marker”

all of these will instantly play from the playhead’s new position.

but alt+click a marker in the marker list (while playing) and you’ll notice the playhead relocates and starts moving instantly but doesn’t play the first 1 second of audio, it plays right through it like it’s muted for 1 second. 

Why does this one specific form of navigation act like this?

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It does indeed the same thing over here.

24 minutes ago, gjstuckpig said:

Why does this one specific form of navigation act like this?

I don't know. I guess the purpose of the Marker List editor is meant for edition not for realtime navigation... I guess you don't want to use the GoTo Marker key commands because they are limited in numbers? Perhaps Meta events 51 might help your endeavior...

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1 hour ago, gjstuckpig said:

All other forms of relocating the playhead while playing will not cause any kind of delay.

You're correct, I'm not sure why Option-clicking a marker in the Marker list should be subjected to that delay when the "Go to marker number xyz" key commands work without delay. Good question. I'll try to get more info about this. 

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Thanks for confirming my suspicions David, it’s very unfortunate because it is this exact form of “on the fly”navigation I need for the situation I am in. As I’ve mentioned before, if anybody has any other ideas on how I can pull this kind of random navigation off during a live show, I’m wide open and desperate lol 😂 

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  • 3 weeks later...

i have explored Meta Event 51 - it's a great idea.  the only problem is that it *also* has weird clicking issues while playing, does not want to let me select the event with one click, even when the event list is in focus.  but i could maybe work with that if i could LABEL the events as the title of the marker i need to jump to.  that doesn't seem to be possible.  so close though - i'd love to know if that would work for me maybe i'm missing something?  

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Instead of using the List Editor to select the Meta 51 event, how about via the environment, using a (renamed at will) fader or button’s object issuing (triggered by mouse click or any MIDI event) the desired Meta 51 value, which I believe should make the jump instantaneous. You could build an array of those buttons/faders…

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6 minutes ago, gjstuckpig said:

I’d love to know how to set up exactly what you just described.

  1. Press Command-0 to open the MIDI Environment. 
  2. From the Layer pop-up menu (top left) choose Create Layer. 
  3. From the Environment menu bar choose New > Fader > Specials > goto Marker.
  4. In the Inspector, set Range for example to "3 3".
  5. In the Inspector, set Style to As Button. 

Click that button to go to Marker 3. Repeat the procedure to create more buttons for other markers. 

Screen Shot 2022-10-06 at 12.20.07 AM.png

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the environment with the set up you gave me is cool, but it has the same type of problems, if i click the environment button *while playing* it moves the playhead immediately but there's another "bug style glitch" where i hear the current section and the new section i navigated to as well for about 2 seconds before the correct audio catches up and plays properly with the playhead.  

but a quick pause-click-play works just fine.  however, i really need it to work during play mode.  it's like every solution is close but not quite, there's a bug at every turn.  

nothing record enabled, no software monitoring, no plugins or software instruments or anything, set to 64 I/O buffer, no other programs open, computer is rockin 64GB ram and i'm completely updated.  gotta be a bug!

try it and you'll see - navigating between markers with the environment buttons will cause crazy audio delays/overlaps for a couple of seconds.  not usable =/ 

 

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Ugh, sorry to hear. 

Then I guess for now you'll have to use the alternate ways of navigating with markers (the key commands you mentioned in your original post). Or if you truly wanted you could create buttons in the environment, get them to send MIDI through IAC and learn those MIDI messages to trigger the desired key commands in the Key Commands window. Bit convoluted but that should work. 

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6 hours ago, David Nahmani said:

Or if you truly wanted you could create buttons in the environment, get them to send MIDI through IAC and learn those MIDI messages to trigger the desired key commands in the Key Commands window. Bit convoluted but that should work. 

I wonder if using the sampler approach instead could do the trick.

One note plays a song, another note plays another song...

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4 minutes ago, gjstuckpig said:

adding cues and tracks and changing the mix

Added cues could be added by mean of new Sampler tracks.

Changing the mix, if planned ahead I believe that could be done by Sampler playback as well.

17 minutes ago, gjstuckpig said:

sending timecode to a separate output for as well for light show

MIDI notes could be sent to trigger light show.

Over here the Meta51 button switching Sampler playback is instantaneous. Perhaps it could be worthwhile to try...

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25 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

That still requires the Logic sequencer to playback. 

Of course!

I think that I was misunderstood by my Sampler suggestion...

One track hold a Sampler. The Sampler has the entire song as a sample. A note, let's say C3 when pressed down (or is recorded in a MIDI region) plays that sampled song. The MIDI region with that (lasting the length of the sampled song) C3 note start at the timeline position coinciding with the Marker's position.  A triggered button Meta51 sends the playhead at that position. The difference here is that instead of lagging (like an audio region playback was doing in the previous attempts), the playback of the Sampler is instantaneous via a MIDI note trigger.

I tried it summarily but considering the potential benefit, it would be easy and worthwhile to test same more extensively with the OP's original material.

Light show MIDI triggering data could be recorded onto another track.

Additional cues or tracks could be added as well (using Sampler method).

My 2 cents...

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10 minutes ago, Atlas007 said:

The difference here is that instead of lagging (like an audio region playback was doing in the previous attempts), the playback of the Sampler is instantaneous via a MIDI note trigger.

Indeed you're right and I had misunderstood your proposed solution. So that works, yes. However in the process of testing this I found that the goto Marker fader buttons were buggy and not always behaving as expected. I just created one for marker 1 and another for marker 2 and sometimes the marker 2 button goes to marker 1. 🙄 

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first of all, thank you guys so much for actually trying it out and proving i'm not crazy! 

the light show is already built to timecode.  for now i'm using "Sticky Keys" to hold Alt down for me, while selecting markers with "hand cursor" from the marker list.  it's currently the smoothest and *least buggy maneuver* for one handed operation.  i still get the 1-1.5 second delay before audio can be heard, so all audio will have to move to the right accordingly.  the sequencer thing may work great but it's just not what i'm looking for.  Meta51 is a fantastic idea but unfortunately it's buggy because of the specific marker list protocol that Apple needs to address. 

Thank you David and special thanks to you Atlas for taking the time and posting some very clever solutions! 

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