Jump to content

Brauer Template Recreation from Pro Tools Template - (VCA) set-up and Routing - Template Added


markno999
Go to solution Solved by David Nahmani,

Recommended Posts

 

I am trying to duplicate the Michael Brauer Pro Tools Template that he recently released on Puremix, in Logic Pro X.   I signed up for a 30-day eval of Pro Tools to pick apart the template and recreate it in Logic, however, I have a few questions on how to best accomplish this task.  His template was unfortunately only released in Pro Tools format.

I have the template generally recreated, however, my questions are around Routing Folders in ProTools vs. equivalent in Logic Pro X.  I have to say that Routing Folders in PT are pretty slick, kind of like a Track Stack but not quite.   My goal in the template is to have small fader VCA's to affect the track level(s) and large fader VCA's that affect levels going into the ABCDE busses, these VCA's and bus compression are part of Brauer's process.   For those like me who have never worked on a console, these small and large fader terms refer to old school consoles where the small fader affects the track level(s), meaning as you pull down the VCA the compressors, etc. on the individual tracks are fed less signal, as are any sends.    Large Faders affect signal going to the Aux buses.

The large fader VCA in this template will affect the signal going into the ABCDE buses so the result is you can just move the VCA fader to find the sweet spot of these compressors rather than tweaking every single track to find it.  Brauer demonstrates this process in his Puremix Video recently released.    My temporary work-around is using a combination of Summing Folders  (which are essentially VCA's) to act as the small fader.  These tracks contain all the audio content that I imported into the template.  I am then sending the individual tracks in these folders to Aux buses, like to Drums, Bass, Guitars Auxes, etc..   Then created VCA's for these Aux Buses which will affect the levels going into the ABCDE buses where all the Brauerized compressors live.   This may be the only way but it does seem a bit convoluted compared to how it is set-up in the Pro Tools template.  After learning about VCA's am really a big fan of using them for a myriad of reasons that most of you are probably aware of.   If anyone has a better solution for this template routing I would love to hear it.  Thx. 


Regards

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For those non PT user among us - could you explain your terminology a bit more detailed please? What's an ABCDE bus? What's the exact difference between a "large" and a "small" VCA fader? What do "Routing Folders" do that summing or folder track stack can't? Please be aware that there might not be that many PT experts on this forum...

Edited by polanoid
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Polanoid,

Nothing really applies specifically to PT in this question, that Routing Folder information was provided for context.    An added bonus would be someone responding that does know about Routing Folders but I don't think knowing them is necessary for solving this issue.   The real question is about implementing VCA's in a way that I can accomplish the goal of having two touch points for VCA levels (more below).     I could always just gain the tracks individually for the purpose of doing what the small fader does i but would like to try this method first.   It seems to be a very convenient methodology.

ABCDE are used for multibus compression that are part of Brauer's process.   He essentially uses different compressors to prevent scaling issues whereby a compressor setting to accomplishes one thing, adversely affects another thing.  So he splits tasks out and puts them on separate Aux Busses.     So Keyboards, Piano, Strings go to the A Bus, Drums/Bass B Buss, Guitars to C Bus, D Bus is for effects and Backing Vocals, E is just a clean Bus used to maybe bring something out with coloring it.     For example, the large fader in this context is the level of Drums or Bass, hitting the B Bus.   Moving the fader up and down allows you to dial-in where the sweet spot is for hitting the compressor and finding where it sounds best.

The terminology of the small and larger fader is essentially where the VCA affects the signal.   If you put individual drums on a track, with effect such as compressors, then add the tracks to a summing stack (this is a VCA) in Logic, when you lower the summing stack level you reduce the level of the track and also the level that it is hitting any plugins at that track level, or any sends.    If you set-up a VCA downstream, it will not affect the level of the track-level plugins, only those downstream where the VCA is set-up.   That was the small and large fader context on an analogue board, small fader was track/channel level, large fader was buss level.

So the real question here is how to best set-up these VCA's, assuming there is a better way than the one described in the original post.   Maybe there isn't?   Thx, appreciate the response.

 

Regards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Still don't understand it, but possibly others here will. One thing I can say for sure is that this isn't true:

23 hours ago, markno999 said:

add the tracks to a summing stack (this is a VCA) in Logic

because Folder Stacks, not Summing Stacks, are VCA controlled (summing stacks are basically sub groups where all containing tracks' outputs are routed to one summing aux).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, polanoid said:

Still don't understand it, but possibly others here will. One thing I can say for sure is that this isn't true:

because Folder Stacks, not Summing Stacks, are VCA controlled (summing stacks are basically sub groups where all containing tracks' outputs are routed to one summing aux).

You're right, I meant to say Folder Stacks.   i.e.  Create Track Stack, Folder Stack.    That is a VCA, not a Summing Stack.  In any event, I figured out how to do this today so Template completed.

Regards

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Solution
5 hours ago, markno999 said:

In any event, I figured out how to do this today so Template completed.

Very good to hear. 

Without knowing how you ended up doing it, I tried to understand your Brauerize mixing template based on the description in your original post and if what you want is to be able to have a VCA to control the level of the signal that hits the plug-ins on a certain mix bus, for example A, so that you can dial in the sound imparted by the compressor inserted on mix bus A, then I would create a summing stack for bus A, then select all the subtracks of the stack and create a VCA fader for them (not a folder stack). Now that VCA fader controls how hard you make the bus A compressor work. Repeat for BCDE. 

In my mind that's the most elegant way to setup for this workflow in Logic Pro, but I haven't seen the Pro Tools template. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, David Nahmani said:

Very good to hear. 

Without knowing how you ended up doing it, I tried to understand your Brauerize mixing template based on the description in your original post and if what you want is to be able to have a VCA to control the level of the signal that hits the plug-ins on a certain mix bus, for example A, so that you can dial in the sound imparted by the compressor inserted on mix bus A, then I would create a summing stack for bus A, then select all the subtracks of the stack and create a VCA fader for them (not a folder stack). Now that VCA fader controls how hard you make the bus A compressor work. Repeat for BCDE. 

In my mind that's the most elegant way to setup for this workflow in Logic Pro, but I haven't seen the Pro Tools template. 

Thanks David,  that is exactly how I ended up doing it.    Works perfectly and super convenient for mixing.  

 

Regards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@markno999 - I also just watched the puremix brauer videos and protools session. I was starting recreating this myself. Any pointers you could give me on the following so far:

I made

- folders stacks for Drums, Bass, Keys, Leads, Vocals etc. running the faders to zero (being essentially bus E - uncompressed - if opened up) 

- Drums and Bass then send to Bus --> B etc etc..

My main issues is calibrating the compressors (it already works but I wonder how to base calibrate the compressors as I could not open the pro tools file and also do not have all of the amazing compressors he has, e.g. i have the arturia neve compressor).

Did you use any replacement plugins? If you could share anything I would be super keen to check it out to learn from you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, stephanLogic said:

@markno999 - I also just watched the puremix brauer videos and protools session. I was starting recreating this myself. Any pointers you could give me on the following so far:

I made

- folders stacks for Drums, Bass, Keys, Leads, Vocals etc. running the faders to zero (being essentially bus E - uncompressed - if opened up) 

- Drums and Bass then send to Bus --> B etc etc..

My main issues is calibrating the compressors (it already works but I wonder how to base calibrate the compressors as I could not open the pro tools file and also do not have all of the amazing compressors he has, e.g. i have the arturia neve compressor).

Did you use any replacement plugins? If you could share anything I would be super keen to check it out to learn from you.

 

Stephan,

I started with Folder Tracks but ended up using Summing Stacks instead.   Brauer has a calibration instruction set on his website.   It seems most YouTube videos and articles on Brauerization that I have seen are focusing on, and in many cases obsessing on calibration of ABCD being the crown jewel. It seems many people get hyper-focused on the aspect of calibration of ABCD compressors or the compressors themselves as being the main tool of Brauer's process. Having tried the ABCD method a few years ago I was a bit underwhelmed and thought it was a waste of time. I didn't get the point based on what I had seen on the topic.  

However, after watching the Michael Brauer and Fernando video on Puremix (very good video btw) it seems that one of the real secrets to finding the magic sound is by playing with the VCA's to feed ABCD correctly to find the sweet spot, AND, the other routing methods he uses in his template. If you're not hitting the compressors right, use the VCAs to correct it. ABDC buses were less than 20% of the video content so there is much more involved in Brauer's methods than I was aware of from articles or videos. My takeaway on calibration was the calibration is only important in that whatever level you choose as your calibration point (-18,-20,-16) or whatever, the compressors are all set to -1db gain reduction. Pick a point that suits your workflow, style and hardware.  You should be able to see the general settings in the video and them tweak them depending on what plugins you are using.   

 

Pushing the pre ABCDE VCAs around, from low to high you find the spot where "the magic happens" as Micheal says in the video. Also in the video, Micheal and Fernando bypass the effects on ABCD in their song example and the differences are subtle in that you add some dimension, 3D quality, clarity and weight to the sound. However, their mix does not fall apart when bypassing ABCD effects which I think speaks to the rest of the template and techniques contributing to the overall sound. The mix sounds a little smaller bypassed but still quite good by any standard.

 

Not sure about the legalities of sharing it since this template video is currently available for sale on the Puremix site, and, this is Brauer's sought after ITB template meaning it would likely get out there.   I would hate to get a message from them about copyright infringement.    He has, after all, Copyrighted the term Brauerize:) 

 

Couple other problems with it, the template contains all the Brauer plugins from his ITB template which many people may not have.    I would not have time to do a Logic Native version of the template or really be available for any questions about the template with my unusual schedule.    Lastly, without seeing the video of Brauer and Fernando explaining how the template works, it may not be immediately apparent how to use it.   Hope this is helpful.

 

Regards 

 

  • Like 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

 

Hi Mark,

Funny, I am exactly in the same process, I am also a puremix subscriber and I got a monthly suscription to (a modern version of) PT TODAY just to open Michael's template and reverse engineer it.

Sadly, it doesn't open. It crashes when loading the UAD plugs which is weird because I own all the uad plugs he uses and I have more than enough processing (x16 + satellite octo).

Any help would be greatly appreciated, and, if you feel like swapping, I reproduced a few other interesting techniques from puremix as templates in logic.

 

Edited by F. d T.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...
On 10/30/2022 at 12:39 PM, steveLpx1 said:

...care to share?.../s~

I had a logic template someone made somewhere. There’s one on Etsy $5 too. and trying to find it. I’ll share if I find it. Here’s basics 

https://www.logicprohelp.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=26724

 

https://www.sonarworks.com/blog/learn/reaper-tip-michael-brauers-brauerize-mixing-technique

this has link to one in info section. 
 

Edited by keano12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What follows is an explanation for all Puremix members that are trying to make heads or tails of the video without access to Pro Tools:

Brauer is using Routing Folders and VCAs to manage imported tracks.

Routing Folders are used for each instrument so that each has the ability to hold multiple takes, edits, etc.

Each of these folders applies a channel strip effect to (and manages all sends for) the aggregated tracks contained within. There is an exception for Vocal tracks, where the take also has sends to the appropriate batch of vocal comps (this will make sense if you're watching the video).

All of the audio tracks (within the routing folders) are connected to a single VCA (Audio Trim). This allows the entire mix to be turned down at the individual track-level.

All of the Routing Folders are connected to VCAs to control the total sound of that type of instrument, e.g. KYS, GTRS, ORCH(estra) each of which goes out to the appropriate bus among V, B, C, A, D, E*.

These "type" VCAs are connected to a Master VCA, to manage input levels to VBCADE. Changes at this VCA need to be compensated out the output of VBCADE to maintain comparative loudness.

Now, to do all of that Logically:

Each imported instrument take is connected to a VCA, Audio Trim.
Takes are in Summing Stacks, even if there is only one track (I start with an audio and an instrument track to allow the creation of the Summing Stack. If I'm not importing MIDI, I delete the Instrument track). Each Summing Stack has 7 busses by default: 6 for each Reverb, 1 to the 1176 processing aux, and one to the E bus. Some have additional sends, but none exceed 12. This makes for excellent Smart Control of the sends, where you can enter the name of the send as a title, instead of the bus number on the mixer.

Summing Stacks are in Track Stacks (KYS, GTRS, ORCH)---which can be folded up, leaving only the (big-)fader of the Track Stack visible. Cleaner than the PT template. They are automatically routed to the VCA of the Folder Stack.

For floated dry Vocals (LV and LV2 in the template), the audio track may have some initial leveling or corrective effect---but it also has 8 sends. One goes to the comp bus (I use the same input for all of the comps) at -13db. Six go to each of the delays, at 0db, off by default). And the last goes to the Dimension D aux (I subbed Arturia for UAD here, as the Arturia sounds right). All of the usual routing to Reverbs and Processing are handled by the Summing Stack, which has no output.

Summing Stacks output to the appropriate VBCADE bus.

This allows for global track-level adjustment (Audio Trim VCA), Per-Instrument control at the Summing Stack fader. Per-type adjustment at the Folder Stack (VCA). Global VBCADE-input control via Master VCA.

[Note: You can skip making a Master VCA for all of the Track Stacks, and instead put Blue Cat Audio BC Gain 3 at the first and last insert slots of VBCADE. This allows all of the inputs to the busses to be controlled with a single Smart Control, and also does inverse gain adjustment at the output. It's not perfect auto-gain correction, but it is instantaneous.]

*I named and rearranged the busses so that I could better remind staff about what goes where. Bus 1 Vocals (V); bus 2 Bottom (B), bus 3 Middle (C), bus 4 Upper (A), bus 5 Ambient (D), and bus 6 Extra (E).

 

Edited by Perrier
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

There are a number of inconsistencies between what Brauer has demonstrated via video and the PT file, and this Logic file. Among them: the sends to vocal comps are 13db too hot; an inconsistent use of the 9000j channel strip (there should be a channel strip per instrument).  This makes all 5 toms, for example, only go through one instance of the board summing feature, instead of each instrument getting its own.

It has additional plugins (Fatso on the OH, J37 on the strings) that aren't demonstrated by Brauer. The 9000j instances are all default settings, not the ones Brauer uses. A number of the compressors are not unlinked or in dual mono, as per.

It looks right, probably sounds good, but isn't doing what Fernando and Michael show in the course.

 

Edited by Perrier
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, David Nahmani said:

A producer shared this Logic Pro Brauer template with me, to allow sort of an Open Source review and update for people having an interest in this:

Thanks David,   good to see there are people interested in the Brauerizing process here.    Looks similar to the PT version Brauer posted.

Regards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Perrier said:

There are a number of inconsistencies between what Brauer has demonstrated via video and the PT file, and this Logic file. Among them: the sends to vocal comps are 13db too hot; an inconsistent use of the 9000j channel strip (there should be a channel strip per instrument).  This makes all 5 toms, for example, only go through one instance of the board summing feature, instead of each instrument getting its own.

Perrier,

Had a look through the Logic Pro Template and it appears consistent with the Brauer PT template.  The PT template does not match exactly what is in the video, however, Brauer does demonstrate a client project in the Puremix video and may have already updated his Template to reflect those imports?   Not sure.   The template is just his starting point and may change by genre, client, etc..    You are correct that it is different than what is shown in the video, in many areas, however, this Logic Template does appear to match the one he released on Puremix.

In the ProTools template file, Brauer has only Routing Folders, individual tracks are not added until he receives client files.  It looks like the author of the Logic Template just added some audio placeholders that are not provided in the ProTools Template version.   I suspect the tom folder represents only a starting point for the tom channel (Brauer's Tom PT Routing Folder) and that if he dragged in 5 tom audio files they would be treated as-needed.   Since Brauer/Fernando may get highly produced files, they may not need much further treatment such as SSL Channel Strip, etc..on each individual channel.

I do see in the Logic Template there is a shared LV Bus (143) that has Lead Vocal send to Delays and Lead Vocal Sends to Compressors, both are set to -13db so the audio routed to LV Verse or LV Chorus are going to hit the compressors at -13db.

 

5 hours ago, Perrier said:

It has additional plugins (Fatso on the OH, J37 on the strings) that aren't demonstrated by Brauer. The 9000j instances are all default settings, not the ones Brauer uses. A number of the compressors are not unlinked or in dual mono, as per.

Correct, these are not shown in the video, however, they are present in his PT Template.   He may delete them if not needed.   I know the J37 Tape adds a very specific color to strings that may or may not be needed.   

Looks like the main A-D Compressors are set to Dual Mono in the Logic Template (Neve 13609, Distressor, Manley and Magic Death Eye) although VCC, Black Box, NLS and TubeTech plugins are set to stereo.   Looks like they are also Stereo in the PT Template.    Not sure having Console Emulation, EQ, or Distortion/Saturation in Dual mono vs Stereo would make a huge difference though.   

Other Observations

Tchad drums – This was one he uses to make the drums pop during maybe a bridge or chorus.    He just pulled up the fader to find the sweet spot and then mutes it through automation when not needed.   

Dimension D volume -13db-  You wlll notice that they have quite a lot of gain before and after the plugin to re-create the hardware, which they mention in the video that the Dimension D plugin falls short of the hardware.   He had it down at -13 in the template.   Even so you don’t need much send to hear it.

Fed on -19.5db - That is also the level it was set on the PT template.  Don’t need much.   I suspect he changes the output based on specific need or vibe.  He is a Vibe guy:)

TR5 Sunset Studio is in Brauer’s PT template.   He mentions in the video that he is a big fan of the Ross Hogarth presets.   Sounds terrific.

They have the Pulsar Echorec in the PT Template.   Brauer uses his own external Binson but I suspect they added this as most people will not have a real Binson.

Look forward to others commenting, correcting errors, adding improvements to this Template that David has shared.   Personally have had great interest in the Brauer process for many years and find it super fascinating to see and hear it in action.    

Regards

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Perrier said:

Went with the Audiority Binson (with corrective EQ to match the hardware better). Scratches that itch more than the Pulsar.

That Audiority Binson sounds terrific.   The Pulsar one sounds OK but not quite what I've heard from the hardware.

Regards

  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • David Nahmani changed the title to Brauer Template Recreation from Pro Tools Template - (VCA) set-up and Routing - Template Added
  • 4 months later...

Thanks everyone for these amazing tips and information.  I’m a newbie in the forum but been mixing for a couple years now and was also trying to make a Logic version of the PT template.

Something that is not very clear to me, and couldn’t find a good answer in any of the puremix videos, it’s about the tracks initial gain level before importing them to the Brauerize template.

Let’s suppose I do a recording session (or got the files from a client), and I have everything comped, edited and ready to mix.  Should I export all the tracks at 0db? -6db? Any other value?

Thanks!

Pablo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, presnizky said:

Should I export all the tracks at 0db? -6db? Any other value?

It really depends on your own personal workflow. If you've set conservative or reasonable levels for your recordings then you can just export without any gain change. I would start there and only change the gain if you're having an issue with that. Basically: if it ain't broken, don't fix it. 

Note that after you import your audio files into a template, you can use the Gain parameter in the Region inspector to adjust the gain of your audio regions nondestructively. Or use Functions > Normalize Region Gain. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

Note that after you import your audio files into a template, you can use the Gain parameter in the Region inspector to adjust the gain of your audio regions nondestructively.

The above is what I do for individual tracks that may be too hot or too quiet.   For Groups use the VCAs to adjust, ex., all drums are too loud.  There is a VCA for Track Level groups to adjust all drums.   If only a couple drum tracks are off use the Gain parameter on them.   Personally I usually just use the Gain parameter at this point.

Later there is also a VCA for pre-ABCDE Bus levels to adjust levels going into the multi bus compression.   In the PureMix video these VCA faders are the ones Brauer uses most of the time in the mix process once track levels are done.   He uses these VCAs to find the sweetspot for hitting the final compressors at a optimal level by listening to the resulting moves.  He moves either the Master VCA to push everything up or down or the individual group VCAs, i.e., drums, bass, vocals, BGV, etc.....

I wouldn't worry about adjusting levels before import, just bring them in an check out the overall sound.    Personally I find when I forget about the rules, i.e., -18dbfs track levels, -6dbfs master fader, etc... and just focus on how it sounds I get much better results.    Brauer says in the  video he gives his mastering engineer .5db to work with meaning he is mixing to around -8 to -9 LUFS.

 

Regards

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, I’ve been going over the puremix videos a couple times now, and changed some plugins on my Logic template, since I don’t own some of the ones shown in the video.

My question now is about the calibration.  I could successfully calibrate the ABCDE buses, but should I also calibrate the other compressors in the template to compress 1 db?

Maybe I missed it, but I didn’t see Michael or Fernando mention this in any of the videos.

Thanks!

Pablo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, presnizky said:

My question now is about the calibration.  I could successfully calibrate the ABCDE buses, but should I also calibrate the other compressors in the template to compress 1 db?

Pablo,

No, they don't calibrate the other compressors, or vocal compressors, in the same way as ABCDE.    In fact, they don't calibrate the other compressors at all.      Most of the vocal compressors are set to reduce signal by -1db except Pawn Shop, Presto and the Distressor which have more compression.  

If you have PureMix subscription or have purchased that video, download the PT Template, if you don't have PT you can sign up for a 30-day demo and dissect the template.  Additionally the template in this thread is close to the settings used in the PT template.

 

Regards

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...