Ableton Link Feature (10.7.5) - experiencing lag. Any ideas?

[zestyOrange]

Hi, I followed this tutorial to enable this feature (the video tutorial is free but you have to sign in/up to the site).

This is so that I can have Ableton and Logic play in sync.

• Logic & Ableton are on the same computer/network ✓.
• Linking them sets Ableton's tempo to the Logic tempo ✓
• Hitting play/stop controls both DAWs ✓

However, Logic always takes a moment longer to start (even though Logic is the controller), so things are not syncing up. It's like logic does a pre-roll/count-in, except it seems to vary in duration. It only does this when they are linked. If I turn off link in Logic, it plays from bar 1 the second I hit play.

Any ideas? I'm on an M1 Studio, but running in Rosetta mode.

[Atlas007]

Does that also happen when Logic runs in native M1 mode (not in Rosetta)?

[zestyOrange]

6 hours ago, Atlas007 said:

Does that also happen when Logic runs in native M1 mode (not in Rosetta)?

Hi Atlas007. Yes, I’ve tried running both Logic & Ableton isn’t native  mode (as well as Logic only). Exactly the same issue. 

Edited November 4, 2022 by zestyOrange

[El Bura]

Hey there

Yeah I have the same issue, I've tried a number of things (linking Logic and Live without any plugins, messing with the delay compensation, using in Native mode etc) but I can't get the two to run exactly in sync, there seems to be around a 13 millisecond delay between the two DAWs. I was so glad to see this when it came out and had some big ideas for live performance but this timing issue puts things on hold for the moment. If anyone has any ideas on fixes please let us know. 

Cheers

[zestyOrange]

Hi. Is your delay consistent? Mine isn’t. Ableton seems to play on time & as expected but Logic lags by varying amounts. I dragged the Timeline out to the left (so I could clearly see where the playhead begins) and repeatedly hit spacebar. It started in a slightly different location each time. I’m curious to know if our problems mirror each other. 
 

It may also be worth setting up a call /screen share with the Logic support team. I did this but they haven’t got back to me yet. Would be interesting to know if they’ve had more reports of this issue since then. 

[El Bura]

Yeah you're right it does vary. I sent them a feedback email today on this. That's a good call about doing the screen share support call. I think there's a support number specific to Logic do you know what it is?

Cheers

[zestyOrange]

I believe I used the ‘contact Apple support’ option on this page

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT200260

[zestyOrange]

Here's a screen-recording of what's still happening for me (i.e. issue not resolved in 10.7.6 update)

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by zestyOrange
extra info

[zestyOrange]

@El Bura I've been chatting to both Apple & Ableton today (via email). Apple suggested I contact Ableton, and Ableton quickly concluded it was most likely a Logic issue ;) 

The Ableton rep asked me to check a few things (like, does Ableton Link work fine with other apps or other versions of Live), and actually I think this may be an Ableton issue for me, rather than a Logic one, because I had similar issues. 

I'm not sure if you're in a position to do the same check - it would be really useful to see if we have the same issue. 

Here is a video of me testing LaunchPad (free) on the iPad with Live. As you can see/hear I can control start/stop/tempo between the two, so they're definitely communicating, but the timing is again, all over the place. This is with Logic completely out of the picture. 

Also, I was wondering if thing party audio utilities may be causing issues, but I can only think of 'Loopback' and I disabled that without managing to resolve anything

 

[Atlas007]

In your first video, there seems to be something before 1.1.1.1.

Logic is notoriously misbehaving when there is anything before 1.1.1.1…

[zestyOrange]

10 hours ago, Atlas007 said:

In your first video, there seems to be something before 1.1.1.1.

Logic is notoriously misbehaving when there is anything before 1.1.1.1…

Looks that way doesn't it, although it's a fresh project (not from a template) and this is just how Logic is behaving. There is nothing actually on the timeline.

[zestyOrange]

Well the fix turned out to be embarrassingly easy!

There were no issues in Logic even though it appeared that way. In Ableton I had the grid quantization set to 1/16th and this control is also used for Link timing. Setting it to 1 Bar fixed the timing issue (it doesn't matter what Logic is set to) but I have to say is one slightly puzzling and misleading matter - at 1/16th you'd imagine the synchronisation offset would alway lag by 1/16th and therefore this would be more obvious, but the timings always seemed to be different. Regardless, it does appear to have 'fixed' the issue for me. @El Bura give it a whirl and let me know if it fixes your issue as well, and thanks @Atlas007 for trying to help me sort it :)

Edited January 4, 2023 by zestyOrange

[El Bura]

Hey there

No change for me, they're still out on sync even if I have the grid and global quantise set to the same amounts. I've tried changing Live's grid to various values and Logics but no change. It's very weird. Have you tried recording midi from Live to Logic or vice versa via the IAC bus? I'm trying to send some Max4Live midi to Logic but the two are never in time so the midi notes don't sync in time to logic.

Glad you got it working though. 

Cheers

[zestyOrange]

Ah sorry to hear that. No, I'm not using the IAC bus directly and I'm only using Link to synch stuff at the moment (I didn't realise Link allowed you to record MIDI/Audio from one to the other - is that definitely doable? I thought Link was only a method to synch in terms of time)

Right now do you have any idea where the issue lies? Is Ableton Link is synching as expected to something other than Logic (eg phone or tablet app)?

If it isn't, you can contact Ableton and send them your Status Report (Help → Get Support from within Live).

 

Edit: Have you got both of these on, too?

Edited January 4, 2023 by zestyOrange

[El Bura]

yeah link is the method to sync the DAWs and you can use the IAC buses to send midi from one DAW to another. 

 

Yeah I'll send Ableton a message and see if they can provide any support. 

Cheers

[zestyOrange]

Happy to have a go and see what happens if you have a source for how to set it all up

[scolfaro]

On 1/4/2023 at 2:43 PM, zestyOrange said:

Well the fix turned out to be embarrassingly easy!

There were no issues in Logic even though it appeared that way. In Ableton I had the grid quantization set to 1/16th and this control is also used for Link timing. Setting it to 1 Bar fixed the timing issue (it doesn't matter what Logic is set to) but I have to say is one slightly puzzling and misleading matter - at 1/16th you'd imagine the synchronisation offset would alway lag by 1/16th and therefore this would be more obvious, but the timings always seemed to be different. Regardless, it does appear to have 'fixed' the issue for me. @El Bura give it a whirl and let me know if it fixes your issue as well, and thanks @Atlas007 for trying to help me sort it 🙂

THANK YOU!!! I used Live for years and released my first two records on it, but had moved on to Logic for another bunch of years (like 5 years already omg) and now I bought Suite again and noticed Logic still does a lot of things way better than Live (which is in turn great for a few others, plus all collabs with other musicians using it).

The only way for me to make sense of it all is to sync them, produce in both and merge sets later in Logic for mixing and finishing. Needless to say it wasn't working before your fix (even tried MTC and MMC and they are even worse). Your fix DOES IT. Applause.

[zestyOrange]

1 hour ago, scolfaro said:

THANK YOU!!! Your fix DOES IT. Applause.

Very glad it helped. Yes, the struggle with this one was real - haha.