Question Re: Recording MIDI FX Output

[pjl]

If, for example, I use the Chord Trigger, and play a monophonic line, I will hear a series of chords.  If I hit record and play that monophonic line I hear the chords but only record the monophonic notes.  If I enable record output on the MIDI FX, hit record and play a monophonic line I not only hear the chords but also record the whole chords.  I get that and it's a welcome addition.

But what if I have already recorded the monophonic line?  Does this feature give me a way to turn that recorded line into the chord sequence or do I still need to use an IAC bus or MIDI Freeze FX to do that?

 

[Dewdman42]

Unfortunately no.   The labeling of the feature is a little misleading.  What this feature basically does is takes whatever MIDI plugins are above the orange line and inserts them in front of the track sequencer.  I don't know what labeling or UI enhancement would have made that more obvious, but that is what it does.

In front of the track sequencer means that those midi plugins above the orange line are only affecting midi coming from live keyboards. 

Whatever comes out of the track sequencer is played through the midi plugins BELOW the orange line.

Only way to take pre-recorded midi parts, process them through plugins and then record the results is either by using IAC or with third party product called MidiFXFreeze.

[pjl]

Thanks, that's what I thought would be the case.

[David Nahmani]

7 hours ago, Dewdman42 said:

I don't know what labeling or UI enhancement would have made that more obvious

I vote for "Route output of this plug-in to Track". 

The first time I read "Record MIDI to Track Here" I thought "What's here? Before or after the plug-in?"

[JakobP]

8 hours ago, Dewdman42 said:

Only way to take pre-recorded midi parts, process them through plugins and then record the results is either by using IAC or with third party product called MidiFXFreeze.

Wouldn't cabling the midi region track to the sequencer input, select the midi fx track and record achieve this ? Can't try it here on 10.5.1...

[David Nahmani]

11 minutes ago, JakobP said:

Wouldn't cabling the midi region track to the sequencer input, select the midi fx track and record achieve this ?

I just tried that but it doesn't work here. The IAC loopback method does work. 

[JakobP]

I see... Guess it must be that Logic checks if the midi is arriving from a midi port somehow...

[David Nahmani]

1 hour ago, JakobP said:

I see... Guess it must be that Logic checks if the midi is arriving from a midi port somehow...

Also the MIDI FX that are before the "Record to Track Here" position are processed before the Physical Input object as can be seen in a Monitor object. So anything you route directly to the Sequencer input is not processed by those MIDI FX plug-ins. 

[JakobP]

4 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

Also the MIDI FX that are before the "Record to Track Here" position are processed before the Physical Input object as can be seen in a Monitor object. So anything you route directly to the Sequencer input is not processed by those MIDI FX plug-ins. 

Interesting ! Thanks for checking it out ! 🙂

[Dewdman42]

I also want to add that most likely if you process midi plugins before the physical input object or actually anywhere before the actual instrument channel; it’s probably adding an additional buffer of latency to the midi input

[Dewdman42]

I'm not really sure what use this new feature really is most of the the time, EXCEPT...people in the past have often used the environment to do various kinds of simple filtering....like...you want to use your CC1 wheel to quickly record CC20 to the track or something like that.  Various simple midi transforms can be handled by the environment before hitting the sequencer.

This new feature makes it possible to do those things using midiFX plugins instead of the environment.

We know that Apple is trying to phase out access to the environment...so....  I see this as part of that effort.

I think using midifx plugins for these kinds of simple tasks is not as good as the environment because it will introduce more latency in order to process all possible 3rd party AUmfx plugins.  The environment was coded long ago in a way to do what it needs to do with very little if any added midi latency, especially for the typical kinds of simple transforms that are usually  needed prior to hitting the sequencer. 

But hey...with midifx there now, you can now do all manner of complicated midi processing before hitting the sequencer if you want now....it just occurred to me that there could be some fun things to do with Scripter, for example, routing stuff to different midi channels and ports before hitting the sequencer, have to do some testing, but for example the fact that Articulation Set's always add articulationID to CC's undesirably...perhaps Scripter could be used pre-sequencer to strip it back off again...or to do other kinds of complicated articulationID stamping that articulation set functionality doesn't do....  So....  Maybe there is something here to explore...  Albiet..I think it will add a little midi latency.

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Dewdman42

[Dewdman42]

just did a quick test and yes, Scripter can be used to adjust things done by articulationSet...such as remove articulationID from ControlChange events!  That is actually quite helpful..notwithstanding the extra latency.

Another question will be whether Smart Controls can be used pre-sequencer in this fashion also...  ANSWER:  YES you assign smart controls to these scripts used on input..so that is actually pretty cool....

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Dewdman42

[Dewdman42]

more clarity...so I see that the track inspector midi IN channel filtering happens BEFORE hitting the MIDIFX.  So yes...I guess the midifx is happening inside the Input port object....but...the track inspector filters that determine which input port and which input channel...does that filtering before hitting the plugins..

That means we can't use Scripter to route input to different tracks.  Because that routing has to take place before hitting the plugins.  We can cause the events to be recorded to the track with a different midi channel, but we won't be able to route to a different track that is connected to different instrument, etc..  

The exact signal chain is still a little cloudy.  Midi comes into the input port object in the environment after that the midifx have already been applied.  But the exact midifx used are determined by the tracks and how they feed through the mixer.  It seems as though INSIDE the input port object is where the track midifx processing happens.  Because each track filters based on input port and input channel...and then would run through the various midifx on one or more tracks...and then the results  come out of the input port object on to the rest of the environment and over to the sequencer..

MIDI-->INPUT PORT OBJECT {
          GO through N number of tracks that are filtered by input port and input channel
          all results merged together
       }
       ---->sequencer....
       
       

something like that...

                       

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Dewdman42