Logic Pro vs MainStage FASTER startup TIME why?? Mac Studio

[jimdilian]

i have 400 plugins installed i used them all but one thing I noticed is that 

Logic Pro is the slowest DAW on the market to startup with many AU installed

and Why does Mainstage Starts in 3 seconds compare to Logic Pro 14 seconds? 

for example:

Studio One 6 starts 100 times faster than logic (only using AU plugins)

Reaper starts 100 times faster than logic (only using AU plugins)

Ableton starts 100 times faster than logic (only using AU plugins)

Mainstage starts 100 times faster than logic (only using AU plugins)

etc etc.. only logic does this.. even with a clean system installed...

even with my new Apple Mac Studio.. the startup is the same very slow in logic pro...

 

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by jimdilian

[olavsu1]

Have you looked at how much weigh the things you are comparing?  Lighter things run faster than heavy ones.

[Atlas007]

14 seconds… Where is the problem?

11 hours ago, jimdilian said:

DAW-X starts 100 times faster than logic (only using AU plugins)

In practice this mean that those boot up in 0.14 second… Really? That is faster than a blink of an eye. To what benefit? How many times a day one need to boot up a DAW?

Not intending to be snarky. Just need to understand…

Edited November 26, 2022 by Atlas007

[blinkofani]

53 minutes ago, Atlas007 said:

14 seconds… Where is the problem?

In practice this mean that those boot up in 0.14 seconds… Really? That is faster than a blink of an eye. To what benefit? How many times a day one need to boot up a DAW?

Not intending to be snarky. Just need to understand…

Somebody called my name?

[jimdilian]

let me check how much time exactly it take ,, 

with time app.. 

You guys don't get the Point of what I am saying.. just Laugh about it.,.. without 

taking it as it is.. classic.

---------------------------------

Logic Pro - 43 seconds Logic Pro with Mac Studio ...

Studio one - 4 seconds

Ableton  - 8 seconds 

Reaper - 4 seconds

Mainstage - 9 seconds

---------------------------------

 

[jimdilian]

2 hours ago, Atlas007 said:

How many times a day one need to boot up a DAW?

like 50 times or 70 times.. i work all day in logic why? 

 

[lookatthisguy]

38 minutes ago, jimdilian said:

3 hours ago, Atlas007 said:

How many times a day one need to boot up a DAW?

like 50 times or 70 times.. i work all day in logic why? 

I think Atlas is asking why you need to keep restarting the program, especially if you're working in it all day long. Per your numbers, you're losing over half an hour each work day to waiting for program restarts… you should only have to open Logic once, at the start of your day, unless you have unique circumstances going on. And if that's the case, there might be workflow improvements you can make, or there may be bigger issues at play with your system or setup.

But beyond that, each program has its own implementation, workflow in which it loads plug-ins. Not sure if anyone here would be qualified to answer why you may be seeing such differences, assuming a controlled environment can be established to make sure the measurements are objective, not subjective. That said, I wouldn't bother comparing MainStage startup time to Logic Pro's—they do vastly different jobs, so their needs are different.

[fisherking]

a lot depends on how you manage your mac. if i'm on a break, i sleep my mac, and, based on my own experiences, logic needs to be quit before i do that.

but if i have a long day and am not sleeping my mac, logic can stay open.

we all work differently, so personally... i don't think it's unreasonable for @jimdilian to have concerns about his logic startup time. still, 400 plugins is a lot of plugins...

are you running rosetta? or running native? and which OS, which version logic? ((you should update your forum sig, too)...

[Atlas007]

3 hours ago, jimdilian said:

You guys don't get the Point of what I am saying.. just Laugh about it.,.. without 

taking it as it is.. classic.

Please accept my apologies if my comments were offending. As mentioned I didn't mean them to be as such. I was just reacting to what was written. To me 14 seconds is (was) rather trivial. Considering that normal use of computer would require perhaps booting same four or five times a day. I boot mine twice on busy days...

Considering the figures you have been posting, intuitively, I am reading the expression of your exacerbated frustration.

Just out of curiosity, why do you need to boot Logic that often (50-70 times / day)?

Again, not intending to be snarky nor offending, just wishing to understand...

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Atlas007

[jimdilian]

tested in 4 imacs 1 imac pro 1 mac studio without nothing just the plugins and a clean install , and yes logic is the slowest of all i have no idea why logic is so bad with third party AU , others Daws are much faster at the startup even Mainstage is 5 times faster.. same plugins..  maybe  logic pro Theme need to fix something with startup engine they have..  and i just bought waves complete bundle and it has like 200 AU.. maybe it will be even slower than before..  on the startup..

and everytime i have an idea in my mind i have to wait 43 seconds to start recording..  if logic is not open.. 8 seconds it's ok 43 it is too much.. and wito more purchases it will get even slower ... the more plugins you install the slower  logic pro is.. Yes I'm using it in roseta mode.. ableton too..mainstage too.. studio one too.. and all the rest.. 

what's wrong with logic programming? why it is so slow when you install third party plugins?.. and ALL the other companies (daws) are even faster than logic.. that is a downside for me..  so i will maybe try using more.. ableton or.. studio one.. maybe.. who knows.. i know all those daws.. i really like logic pro.. but man it is very slow when you open it and you have a lot of plugins.. and ONLY logic does that..  anyway.. maybe someday it will be as fast as Mainstage.. 

[jimdilian]

59 minutes ago, Atlas007 said:

Please accept my apologies if my comments were offending.

no no ofense .. it does not matters to me.. but why in this logic pro forum everytime someone put the facts in the table about something that Logic Pro does do so good.. instead of saying YES you are right..  same problem here etc.. 

every body starts asking things like "Why" you open your  logic pro 30 or 40 or 50 times a day? what's that has to do with the PROBLEM? .. nothing,.. i just have to close and open logic many times because i work with many daws .. so?.. 

anyway..  it's clasic in this forum it is pretty good.. but everytime I point some BAD about logic it's like LOGIC fans get ofended or something like that.. 

this is the procedure.. this is the result .. is there a hack or a fix for that?.. 

or does somebody Knows why logic is so slow if you install alot of third party AU ?.. simple. if not.. ok no problem it is what it is.. next.. if somebody knows a TRICK ir something.. well that could Help me. thanks. no problem man.. 

 

[jimdilian]

i mean it's not the end of the world.. i'm just pointing out what i'm experiencing 

[lostmemories]

The latest versions of Logic load plug-ins very very slowly. It looks like it now loads AUv3 plug-ins natively asynchronously on the Apple Silicon ARM version, and uses some kind of wrapper for AUv2 plug-ins, which makes them load a lot slower. You can see that when you open an AUv2 plug-in, it first opens in a small size, and then takes its final size. AUv3 plug-ins, on the other hand, open instantly.

[fisherking]

to be fair, we're not all experiencing a long startup. and blaming ppl here for their comments won't help anything; ppl just post their own observations, and are trying to help.

is this the time it takes for the app to open, or the time it takes to open a template? and do you have a custom template?

on my intel imac, it takes the app 4 seconds to open, and then 4 seconds to open my (loaded) template.

are all of your plugins up-to-date? compatible with your logic version/OS? you could try disabling them in bunches (ie alphabetical groups), and see if you can pinpoint what might be slowing things down.

or consider finding a workaround, ie opening logic well in advance of when you want to use it;  i mean... try something to make this work for you.

[jimdilian]

11 hours ago, fisherking said:

a lot depends on how you manage your mac. if i'm on a break, i sleep my mac, and, based on my own experiences, logic needs to be quit before i do that.

thanks for your answer my computers never sleep always on.. i use them all

[fisherking]

12 minutes ago, jimdilian said:

thanks for your answer my computers never sleep always on.. i use them all

did you see my post just above this reply? (also, why do you never sleep your macs? just curious). either way, you could leave logic open. but again, is this app open time or a custom template? (and i had other thoughts/questions, just above your last post)...

EDIT: one more thought; do you at least reboot occasionally? rebooting flushes the ram; it's a good thing for the operation of your mac(s), either when you're having issues, and just periodically in general.

Edited November 26, 2022 by fisherking

[jimdilian]

20 minutes ago, fisherking said:

to be fair, we're not all experiencing a long startup. and blaming ppl here for their comments won't help anything; ppl just post their own observations, and are trying to help.

is this the time it takes for the app to open, or the time it takes to open a template? and do you have a custom template?

on my intel imac, it takes the app 4 seconds to open, and then 4 seconds to open my (loaded) template.

are all of your plugins up-to-date? compatible with your logic version/OS? you could try disabling them in bunches (ie alphabetical groups), and see if you can pinpoint what might be slowing things down.

or consider finding a workaround, ie opening logic well in advance of when you want to use it;  i mean... try something to make this work for you.

only to open no to open the project I know something computers.. and I know that is another process..

yes without third party plugins it takes 4 seconds here too. but as i said after installing my plugins all updated not all to rosseta YET ..  but that problem happens on my imac Pro too and Laptop + other Mac Apple Sillicon not only on my computer.. and that problem happens only on Logic.. not in my other Daws.. 

PINPOINT¡ I did that ¡ exactly that Install only izotope 7.. restart take notes of the time.. so so.. and then.. izotope 8 .. waves.. etc etc.. and the more plugins I have no matter which Company is the more  LOGIC PRO takes to start up .. no Templates or last project used.. nothing.. just the startup..yes i though first it was only One Company or Brand.. etc.. and not.. the more plugins you Buy and  INstall the more slow Logic "Startup" becomes.. 

 

yes thank fisherking ¡ I have no idea why only  logic pro does that.. that is sometihing I mention before.. my other daws with VST disblae in preferences using only AU start up so fast compare to logic..  it is slowing me down very much my work flow.. to the point of almost leave  logic pro besides.. but I really like  logic pro it is fantastic DAW. so.. yes.. I have no solution for my problem Yet.. because I use other daws too.  and I use those plugins too.. so moving the AU physically from the AU folder and put them back it is a very slow problem and not very practical .. very strang because MAINSTAGE is an Apple Product.. starts like ableton and studio one and etc.. very FAST.. very strange,... i have no idea why.. it's been  years this problem.. for me.. with logic.. even in the fastest Intel Imacs and Pros etc does that.. only logic.. tested By me.. with a clean system installed on them.. 

in my opinion i think is something about Logic Pro itselfs.. the Engine it uses to startup..the app.. programming.. etc.. it is not hardware related . so.. maybe someday in a dew years Apple Logic Theme Programers will FIX that issue.. but I don't think so.. so i am stuck on this when I use Logic Pro.. very sad about it.. in fact That's is why I mention it.. maybe somebody knows a "hack" or a "comand" or something.. to by pass something I don't know.. to make logic startup faster.. but no luck yet..

 

Thank you for you help and respond and sorry about my english it is not my country language..  in fact I send a report to Apple logic "Feedback" years ago talking about it.. and no Fix and Respond etc.. just saying that They thing it is the Third Party AU.. i don't think so.. because as I said 100 times before.. my other daws don't do that.. only Logic. anyway.. gotta keep working now.. mixing. Thanks.. and maybe someday apple can fix that.. or some one knows some way of Making logic Faster at the startup . 

37 minutes ago, fisherking said:

did you see my post just above this reply? (also, why do you never sleep your macs? just curious). either way, you could leave logic open. but again, is this app open time or a custom template? (and i had other thoughts/questions, just above your last post)...

EDIT: one more thought; do you at least reboot occasionally? rebooting flushes the ram; it's a good thing for the operation of your mac(s), either when you're having issues, and just periodically in general.

yes yes to all allready try that.. even pram reset etc.. and nothing.. just music apps and nothing more on my macs.. nothing no adobe.. video etc apps.. very clean system.

[jimdilian]

5 hours ago, lostmemories said:

The latest versions of Logic load plug-ins very very slowly. It looks like it now loads AUv3 plug-ins natively asynchronously on the Apple Silicon ARM version, and uses some kind of wrapper for AUv2 plug-ins, which makes them load a lot slower. You can see that when you open an AUv2 plug-in, it first opens in a small size, and then takes its final size. AUv3 plug-ins, on the other hand, open instantly.

Yes I have notice that too.. very strange. i thought buying the fastest mac studio will fix my problems and load plugins faster but not.. same as intel almost imac pro.. there's something wrong and strange about  logic pro with apple silicon.. and it is going to take years to all Third Party companies to release their final perfect AUv3 plugins.. so.. foolish me thinking that the Fastest Mac Studio will load plugins fasters etc etc.. the answer is NO. simple.  even in my other mac mini m1.. from 2020 does that the same thing.. so it is software related with Logic.. and not a very optimize Rosseta or logic who knows what programming..

so that is something people should be aware of when they bought Third Great party AUs with logic.. but yes.. Mac Studio supports alot of tracks alot ¡ that is 100% true.. but opening plugins and closing them.. you can see very strange Core Peaks on the system monitor.. and things like that.. it's something have to be aware of . when buying a Apple Silicon...  maybe and UPDATE from logic and Monterrey will fix it.. but I doubt it.. it's been years since Apple Logic Theme "programming" does not change the logic "Engine" very much.. it is not very good optimized in my opinion.. not yet. maybe in 5 years yes.. but now today.. noup.. things are very weird and slow sometimes.. like the Startup problem I have.. and opening AUs too... noticed that too.

[fisherking]

98% of the plugins i use (synths, effects, drums, etc) are 3rd-party. and still... 4 seconds to open logic.

again, which version logic, which OS? that's important info. it can't simply be a logic issue, or we'd all be complaining about it.

have you rebooted? let us know. and izotope, for example (very demanding plugins), should be up-to-date (for your logic version/OS).

are the other DAWS you use using the VST versions of plugins? (as logic only uses the AUs).

we need more info to help...

 

[zipb]

I have over a 1000 plug-ins. My 2019 Intel i9 hack with NVME bootdisc starts Logic 10.7.5  in 18 seconds.

Faster than Cubase. Slower than Bitwig.

I remember the days when Logic would take 10 minutes to boot on my Quadra 950 or whatever I had in the early 90-ties of the last century, so I am not complaining.

[Atlas007]

Wild guess: are you running Logic in its native english version or in another language?

Have you tried booting Logic in a new user account?

Edited November 26, 2022 by Atlas007

[fisherking]

has the OP vanished? why do ppl come to a forum for help, ignore most of the advice, then disappear..? ah right, it's the internet 🙄

 

[jimdilian]

On 11/26/2022 at 10:07 AM, fisherking said:

98% of the plugins i use (synths, effects, drums, etc) are 3rd-party. and still... 4 seconds to open logic.

again, which version logic, which OS? that's important info. it can't simply be a logic issue, or we'd all be complaining about it.

have you rebooted? let us know. and izotope, for example (very demanding plugins), should be up-to-date (for your logic version/OS).

are the other DAWS you use using the VST versions of plugins? (as logic only uses the AUs).

we need more info to help...

sorry i was out.. lastest logic pro version monterrey lastest update too..  yes i have no idea why logic takes so much time.. to load up.. that happened in my other macs too.. with many plugins installed.. imac pro.. mac studio.. and a apple latop too.. so it is not the version of logic pro or the system it is something that logic does.. and in my other macs the other apps open up very fast too Mainstage.. Ableton.. Reaper super fast.. Studio one.. etc . only logic does this slow thing..  i guess is the logic pro engine.. or something.. 

[jimdilian]

yes I took all izotope plugins out from "components" folder and nothing.. still very slow.. i don't think it is just 1 plugin.. o a brand.. i think is something with logic.. because I measure the time.. talking out 100 plugins at time.. and yes.. the more plugins.. the slowest logic gets .. not by "brand" or "company".. it is more about the number of plugins.. strange.. it went from 10 second to 43..  seconds and if I buy and install more it will be even slower.. so?.. that is bad news for my workflow.. even Mac Os Monterrey starts Faster than Logic ..  in 9 seconds I am inside monterrey ready for work.

Edited November 30, 2022 by jimdilian

[fisherking]

57 minutes ago, jimdilian said:

sorry i was out.. lastest logic pro version monterrey lastest update too..  yes i have no idea why logic takes so much time.. to load up.. that happened in my other macs too.. with many plugins installed.. imac pro.. mac studio.. and a apple latop too.. so it is not the version of logic pro or the system it is something that logic does.. and in my other macs the other apps open up very fast too Mainstage.. Ableton.. Reaper super fast.. Studio one.. etc . only logic does this slow thing..  i guess is the logic pro engine.. or something.. 

first, if you're using the same plugins on all these systems and having this issue... you should look at those plugins. that, and any other shared resources, (ie a custom template). if it's not izotope, it's something else.

also: does a reboot change anything? have you tried creating a 'test' admin account? are you trying the things people here are suggesting? 

if the goal is to complain repeatedly... you've achieved your goal. but if the goal is get help, you need to participate...

[jimdilian]

2 minutes ago, fisherking said:

first, if you're using the same plugins on all these systems and having this issue... you should look at those plugins. that, and any other shared resources, (ie a custom template). if it's not izotope, it's something else.

also: does a reboot change anything? have you tried creating a 'test' admin account? are you trying the things people here are suggesting? 

if the goal is to complain repeatedly... you've achieved your goal. but if the goal is get help, you need to participate...

yes I know that.. i always reboot after taking out the au's ,,, i am in admin account i don't thing that's the problem.. it happens with my other macs too.. Yes I have tried everything and nothing.. logic still very slow.. 

I DON'T HAVE A GOAL.. here.. to complain.. or to fix.. or whatever..?? what's that all have to do with this?....??? I am just saying and sharing my facts.. to see if some one knows why logic is so Slow and Mainstage faster? or even other Daws? with the same amount of plugins?..  this has no logic to me.. i mean it is an apple product it should be the Fastest Startup than Any other daw ..am I right?.. 

but it is quite the opposite.. my other Daws start  much much Faster than Logic Pro. even Mainstage.. and it is by apple very fast too.. so maybe it is not the Plugins.. it is the "ENGINE" "programming" that logic pro uses.. that is my guess after all the tests.. and facts.. methodic tests..  well i post this here to know if someone knows something deeper than the logical things we do to fix problems.. like moving au's out.. restart.. and test.. change user accounts.. etc.. some other solution I really like logic pro.. but it just takes too much time to start up.. in a Mac Studio.. quite disappointed with a SSD super fast.. and lots of ram.. and many cores.. etc etc.. and a clean system.. so has to be something deeper in the logic engine.. i guess.. that is my veredict.. nothing fix it.. not the usual stuff.. 

[fisherking]

are your other DAWS using the VST plugins? and did you try creating a clean 'test' admin account, just to see how logic works? (really simple thing to do).

if you can't fix it, find a workaround. ie open logic in advance of going to work.

but really, 14 seconds (!) is not a long time overall...

[lookatthisguy]

Also, again, MainStage isn't a DAW. Despite using a lot of the same tech/code, I don't think such comparisons are going to be of much use to you.

[jimdilian]

On 11/30/2022 at 5:56 PM, fisherking said:

are your other DAWS using the VST plugins? and did you try creating a clean 'test' admin account, just to see how logic works? (really simple thing to do).

if you can't fix it, find a workaround. ie open logic in advance of going to work.

but really, 14 seconds (!) is not a long time overall...

no my daws Don't Use VST.. only AU.. no vst enable in them.. 

Yes i had tried that creating a new admin account too nothing the same.. 

it is not 14 seconds it is 42 seconds.. to startup logic pro.. that a lot

 

[jimdilian]

and another TEST i Did.. gave me more Bad Results.. 

Same Plugins in Intel installed.. and the same in Mac Studio..

logic opening in Rosseta mode.. 

Again same exactly AU's and logic in the Mac Studio takes much much longer than intel to open.. Strange.. like 20 seconds more.. another Sad News for me..

so yes.. Rosseta 2.,. makes logic startup Longer than Intel.. strange but true.