I'm losing my mind... Space Designer Bricasti Presets please

[Archaeopteryx]

Please help me! I've been searching high and low for the Space Designer presets for the Bricasti M7 IR files for many hours

I have found so many dead links after hours of searching.

Does anyone know where I can find a working link or point me towards the preset files please?

I'd be really grateful for the help

[des99]

Which IR files are you referring to? Third-party IRs can be used in any convolution reverb plugin, you just load the IRs in, you don’t need plugin-specific settings to use them.

[Archaeopteryx]

Thanks for your reply

I'm a bit out of my depth here, so I hope you'll be patient if I'm misunderstanding

I have IR files for Bricasti M7 - the folders containing M- to-S, L and R wavs

I've read in numerous forums etc that there exists a folder of 'ready made' presets specifically for Space Designer

Since my post I have discovered presets for Waves IR1 in .xps format. I don't know where to put those either.

Basically I need to be certain where I place my IR wavs and the presets for Space Designer

[Archaeopteryx]

Sorry to upset forum etiquette, but I have worked out how to get the Waves presets working. It's just Space Designer I was hoping to figure out. 

[des99]

57 minutes ago, Archaeopteryx said:

I have IR files for Bricasti M7

Yes, I understand you have M7 IRs. I asked which files - ie, who made them, and did they also make Space Designer settings files? If they did, and you can't find them, you probably want to contact the developer and ask them.

57 minutes ago, Archaeopteryx said:

I've read in numerous forums etc that there exists a folder of 'ready made' presets specifically for Space Designer

Again, without knowing which files or companies (or forum threads) you're talking about, it's too vague to really make any practical suggestions as to what and where these files may be.

But like I say, you don't need Space Designer presets to use the IRs in Space Designer, in case you didn't realise that, so the lack of finding some files you've read somewhere might have been available that somebody might have made at some point doesn't stop you from using the IRs. If they were made by someone who isn't the developer of the IRs, all they would have done is exactly what you need to do - load an IR in SD, and then save that as a preset named according to the IR.

There's no reason to lose your mind!

Edited December 13, 2022 by des99

[Archaeopteryx]

Thanks des

Thanks for taking the time to reply and offering directions. 

I think I'm gradually working it out bit by bit

Cheers!

 

[des99]

No worries - if you get stuck, you can also post back and we'll try to help.

[Archaeopteryx]

Thank you

[Archaeopteryx]

Hi des

I've had a night to think about it and realise I probably didn't necessarily give you enough info about my question. Actually, I probably wasn't even asking the right question.

I now have the Bricasti M7 .xps presets running nicely in IR1 but I do have further questions.

I could make a guess, but what is the difference between the options I have in IR1 when loading 'Impulse Response and Preset', 'Impulse Response' and 'Preset' when I initially go to load a preset? Or, in another way, what IRs actually load when I choose 'preset' alone (where I am not required to locate any wavs at all)?

What loads when I choose 'Impulse Response and Preset' as I am always asked to find the 'Quad'.wav which I have to search for when first loading. (After this, the software seems to know where to go as I am no longer requested to locate any wavs at all)

Can I keep the Quad files in the same folder as the other wavs and would this skip my having to manually find the Quad wavs when I load my first 'Impulse Response and Preset' into IR1?

[des99]

10 minutes ago, Archaeopteryx said:

I now have the Bricasti M7 .xps presets running nicely in IR1 but I do have further questions.

About the Waves plugin? I can't really advise on that, I don't use it, but if you want to talk about Logic and Space Designer, you're in the right place...

10 minutes ago, Archaeopteryx said:

I could make a guess, but what is the difference between the options I have in IR1 when loading 'Impulse Response and Preset', 'Impulse Response' and 'Preset' when I initially go to load a preset? Or, in another way, what IRs actually load when I choose 'preset' alone (where I am not required to locate any wavs at all)?

Generally, an IR is the impulse response, and when you load one, the plugin will set a default state of it's other parameters (whatever features it offers) to make that IR sound correct. A preset might simply be exactly that default state, with the loaded IR file, saved, so you just load the preset, rather than having to manually load the IR (as the IR and path will be saved in the preset).

Also, someone could have changed a variety of plugin parameters to make the IR sound different, maybe shortening it, or EQing it, whatever other features the third-party plugin has, and saving that as a preset. A plugin preset is basically the loaded IR, and whatever status of the plugin's other parameters are set at.

I don't really know what "quad" files are, and I have no way of looking because you've never said which files you are working with, where you got them from, and gave me any other information which would let me see exactly what files you are working with.

If you just want the IR to sound as it is, you can just load the IR. If you want to examine the presets, compare the plugin settings when you load the plugin and then IR, then load the corresponding preset (if they work like this - again, I've no idea of the files you have) and see whether any settings are different.

Space Designer works exactly the same BTW. When you load an IR, the plugin is set with a default set of parameters that make the plugin sound according to the IR. But you can change all kinds of additional parameters, shorten or lengthen the IR, add filtering, EQing, change the mix setup etc, and save that as a plugin preset, so next time you recall it, the correct IR ill be loaded and all the other plugin parameters recalled as saved.

Edited December 14, 2022 by des99

[Archaeopteryx]

Hi des - I understand most of that - believe me, that's progress, so I genuinely thank you for that.

It's only relatively recently that I've come to recognise the importance of at least trying to understand the subtleties of reverb properly.

I've started using Waves IR1 (which I've used on and off in a very basic manner for a while) and I'm liking the sound of these new (to me) Bricasti IRs

I appreciate this is a Logic forum and forgot the post should be focussing on Space Designer so I apologise for straying. So on the subject of Space Designer, can I ask, is there a quick way to generate presets from IR format?

I appreciate that must sound pretty lame and lazy of me. I know I must reek of newbie.

Thanks

[des99]

6 minutes ago, Archaeopteryx said:

So on the subject of Space Designer, can I ask, is there a quick way to generate presets from IR format?

No, unfortunately, you have to load the IR manually, and then save the preset. There isn't a batch way of doing this (although I do have Keyboard Maestro scripts that save out plugin settings, and modified mine to batch save out Space Designer settings from IRs, but it's still a bit tedious.)

However, since then I moved on to using Reverberate from LiquidSonics* for my impulse response duties, which has a much better method for browsing, loading and trying IR's without having to make plugin settings for them, so that's what I use now. I always found Space Designer a bit tedious to use third-party IR libraries with for this reason, and was one reason those IR's got neglected. The SD-supplied presets are still good though.

*And also Seventh Heaven Pro for Bricasti M7 reverbs...

Edited December 14, 2022 by des99

[Archaeopteryx]

I'm running a demo of Reverberate and it's beautiful. I've read marvellous things about Seventh Heaven Pro as well but at present both are currently out of my price range. Sad but true.

Is Altiverb as amazing as I read everywhere?

[Danny Wyatt]

2 minutes ago, Archaeopteryx said:

I'm running a demo of Reverberate and it's beautiful. I've read marvellous things about Seventh Heaven Pro as well but at present both are currently out of my price range. Sad but true.

Is Altiverb as amazing as I read everywhere?

My 2 cents: if you are in fact new to Logic, reverb, or even composition/production/songwriting in general, I would completely ignore what you "read everywhere". Think about this: if reverb ABC is so great according to a certain YouTube channel, then why do we have so many different brands, types, etc? Because each one is different. Each person using a reverb is different. Each application of a reverb is different. 

I always encourage people to stick to stock plugins as much as possible, before assuming they need a third-party plugin. If you are indeed new to the whole "game" I can guarantee you that I could play you 2 audio files using Space Designer and a third party plugin and you wouldn't know the difference. Even experienced people. It's all super relative and subjective and it always needs context. And if you are listening to a piece of music hyper focused on whether a reverb is "real" or not, you are not experiencing music the right way 😉

So my suggestion is: stick to Space Designer. Learn what it can do for you. There are dozens of presets there already. Use them, modify them, save new presets with those changes. If you don't love a particular preset, try adding a new effect after it like a chorus, a phaser, another reverb, a delay, etc. The beauty of music is that you can experiment and come up with amazing things. Don't become a "slave" of other people's opinions on gear/plugins. 

[Archaeopteryx]

 

Hi Danny Well, for my two penneth I've been involved with 'digital' recording for longer than I'd like to admit (about 25 years with Cubase and then Logic).

I've been using 'stock' reverbs but am now realising that 'stock is not always best' at all and I find it an odd statement for an experienced musician to make.

Also, I do like to read as much as I can about as many things as I can and then consult other musicians. How else does one learn and discover that they have been stuck in a creative rut for years on end?

Many thanks

[des99]

32 minutes ago, Archaeopteryx said:

I'm running a demo of Reverberate and it's beautiful. I've read marvellous things about Seventh Heaven Pro as well but at present both are currently out of my price range. Sad but true.

They've just finished their yearly sale a couple of days ago, where Reverberate was I think 50% off. But no matter, you don't need it, I'm just saying that the clunkiness of Space Designer handling large third-party IR libraries was a big reason I switched to using it instead of SD for IRs. It's really unlocked my IR collection for me in a way Space Designer never did.

I have way too many LiquidSonics/Reverb Foundry/Relab reverbs, and love them all... 🙂

Edited December 14, 2022 by des99

[Danny Wyatt]

15 minutes ago, Archaeopteryx said:

'stock is not always best'

The same way that a third-party plugin is not always the best. There's a reason people are still using the SM57 to record snare drums when it's a pretty cheap microphone, instead of using a $10k Neumann, right?

As I said, it's all about context, personal preferences, etc.

If you take the time to actually read my comment, I never said the stock plugins are "the best". What I said is that people jump into the mindset of "third-party plugins are way better" without even trying the stock plugins deep enough to form a reliable opinion. You have no idea how many times I talked to people who have been using Logic for years and don't even know that the plugin XYZ even exists and if they do know, they have never really explored it, because they went and bought the third-party plugin ABC, because "someone said it was amazing".

I understand that a company that only builds reverbs, is more focused on making them sound "better" (whatever that even means, because... context) versus Apple that is trying to build a lot of things. Does that mean that stock plugins are "crap"? No, not at all. 

If you and I have the same song to mix, the same studio, the same plugins, the same hardware, etc, will our mixes sound exactly the same? No, because we work and think different. Even if you mix a song today and then mix it a year from now using the same gear, studio, etc, the mix will be different, so this should illustrate that what makes great music (whatever that means) is great people, not "great" gear/equipment/studios.

But sorry if I somehow "hit a nerve" with my previous comment. Was trying to leave a positive comment, but it seems that it was misinterpreted...

Edited December 14, 2022 by Danny Wyatt

[Assessor]

There is also Space Designer Manager which can be bought on the App Store. It can generate plugin settings in seconds. And there are a couple of parameters you can change for example you could generate one batch of pst-files for inserts (with Dry volume att full) and another set for busses (with Dry Volume at min).

I only tried the demo once but it seem very good for anyone using Space designer and have lots of  IR:s.

btw: It just recently got updated for Apple Silicon!

[des99]

Thanks for the reminder, yes I remember that app. I also seem to remember it was quite pricey, especially as I'd only be basically using it once to generate settings for my IR library. It's getting on for what Reverberate costs in the sales, and that's much more value for money, imo, in terms of browsing and accessing an IR library...

But yes, worth considering and thanks for the memory jog!

Edited December 14, 2022 by des99

[Archaeopteryx]

Hi Danny. I apologise for what seems in retrospect to be a rather terse response to your lengthy and informative post.

All info is very gratefully accepted and I should read not only your own post but also my own before I hit to submit.

[musos]

@ Archaeopteryx:

Are you working in stereo or surround?

If I recall correctly, the "quad" files you mentioned above were quadrophonic versions of the Bricasti IR's.

I have wav files and Logic settings for the stereo versions, if you want them.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Hi musos. Thanks for your response. Would you be willing to exchange a few pms please? I'm likely to have a lot of questions and it would probably clutter this thread 

[musos]

I might not be able to answer many questions as I really didn't use the Bricasti stuff much, but sure...pm me.

[Archaeopteryx]

Am I permitted to ask another question in this post? It's relevant to the original 

[triplets]

26 minutes ago, Archaeopteryx said:

Am I permitted to ask another question in this post? It's relevant to the original 

Anything related to your original post is ok.

[David Nahmani]

1 hour ago, Archaeopteryx said:

It's relevant to the original 

It's best to start a new topic for new questions. Questions can be marked as solved, so imagine you ask a follow-up and it's solved, can we mark it as solved even though the original question wasn't solved? That's one of the reasons. 

Other reasons include search engine indexing, tagging, browsing and searching by title, etc. 

So it really depends HOW relevant it is to the original. When in doubt, best to start a new topic. 😉 

[Archaeopteryx]

Well, from the point of view of someone only now looking in depth at reverb (ie ME), there seem to be huge differences in the cost of convolution reverbs

Is the software or quality of IR the biggest contributing factor to a truly high quality reverb?

[des99]

58 minutes ago, Archaeopteryx said:

Is the software or quality of IR the biggest contributing factor to a truly high quality reverb?

Is your question more like "Why is Altiverb so expensive?"

A company can price it's products however it likes, dependent on many factors and the market you're operating in. For something like movie post-production, audio products are comparatively inexpensive compared to other things in the production process.

But yes, if you've spent years jetting around the world and hiring the most incredible spaces to make custom impulse responses for your library, you're not going to want to sell the plugin and the library for pennies... Altiverb's main draw is it's large library of excellent impulses, not so much it's status as a convolution reverb - which was novel at the beginning, but isn't anymore.

BTW, back when the premium Logic plugins had to be purchased separately, Space Designer alone was about £450 in the UK. (Logic these days is £175, for a reference).

[Archaeopteryx]

Thanks des - something else I didn't know

So presumably there's some form of encryption involved.

OK - so... the Bricasti IRs I've been bugging you with. These should sound the same when played through Space Designer and Waves  IR1 for example? (with no editing. Just the untouched IR)

[des99]

2 hours ago, Archaeopteryx said:

So presumably there's some form of encryption involved.

Yes, Altiverb's IR's are encrypted and can only be used in Altiverb.

2 hours ago, Archaeopteryx said:

These should sound the same when played through Space Designer and Waves  IR1 for example? (with no editing. Just the untouched IR)

Basically, yes. As you seem to have access to both, it's easy enough to do a few checks loading the same impulses in each and playing the same audio through them, and comparing the results.

Edited December 15, 2022 by des99