Creating sample instruments for kontakt

[NoPro]

First off I’m a total  beginner to kontakt for making a sample instrument as well as quick sampler…

I’m interested in using kontakt for the first sample instrument .

 I understand what a round robin sounds like but I need to know how to make them easily . The videos I’ve watched go pretty quick through the process .

I do see how to make a 1 note sample instrument but I’d like to get a bit more complex .more velocities (I see how to do that  (have a few velocities per note)

A few kontakt videos go real fast explaining this stuff and I’m wanting logic specific info …I want to use samples that I record , edit and then load into kontakt.

it seems fairly easy but as a beginner making a sample instrument for the first time I’d appreciate any help. Alot of kontakt tutorials assume knowing how to cut samples /bpm info? and leave out information for the beginner . I’d like to make a drum kit or any instrument like even a vocal line with different velocities….add round robins . thank you in advance 

Edited January 23, 2023 by NoPro
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[des99]

Kontakt is a self-contained plugin, you import your samples and build your instrument inside of Logic, so there is no "Logic-specific" info as such - it's all Kontakt usage.

Building sampled instruments can be quite involved, and quite complex, depending on what you are trying to do, and the best way to get good at it, like anything, is to do it a lot, but start simply to get the fundamentals down, and over time, push out into more advanced instruments, scripting and so on.

But it's all very instrument specific - what a drum kit might need is very different to what a multisampled solo violin might need etc, and we can't give a course in advanced sample instrument creation in a forum post. What we can do is give specific tips if you are trying to achieve a particular thing, and struggling - but remember that this is a Logic forum in general, not a Kontakt one. There are Kontakt, scripting and sample library development forums out there where the focus is on this stuff, and those might be worth checking out.

[NoPro]

I thought this section was “and anything else “ but I get it ….

I already tried the kontakt forums ….but yes what you say makes perfect sense . For now I’ll stick with a few small instruments and see where it takes me . The round robin part baffles me even with the easiest of piano instruments but I’ll keep at it. I appreciate your honesty and help . I might as well also ask questions here regarding  logics sampler …I may use that instead for making instruments …thank you 

Edited January 23, 2023 by NoPro

[des99]

15 minutes ago, NoPro said:

I thought this section was “and anything else “ but I get it ….

I'm not saying don't ask or discuss it here, that's perfectly fine - what I'm saying is, there may be less Kontakt experts who are creating multisampled, scripted instruments here to deal with the entirety of the subject, than other places.

I've done a fair amount, including fairly involved scripting, and I'm willing to help with specific questions, as are I'm sure others.

15 minutes ago, NoPro said:

For now I’ll stick with a few small instruments and see where it takes me . The round robin part baffles me even with the easiest of piano instruments but I’ll keep at it.

Sure. It's not that difficult, but start simple, and add functionality as required. We all have to figure out this stuff as we get to it, and Kontakt doesn't have the most exciting interface to work with (it's old, tiny, and poor...)

15 minutes ago, NoPro said:

I might as well also ask questions here regarding  logics sampler …I may use that instead for making instruments

You'll find that a lot more accessible, easier, and nicer to work with, though your instruments will be Logic-only of course.

Edited January 23, 2023 by des99

[NoPro]

Totally agree about the ancient looking kontakt ….sooo small it’s off putting ….and more . 
-too bad logic’s. sampler is logic only but that’s another story .

 

[NoPro]

I finally found a clear explanation of round robins. Now I just need to integrate round robins with velocities (should be easy ) I know how to create velocities per note but not in relation to round robins .

[rAC]

On 1/25/2023 at 1:11 AM, NoPro said:

I finally found a clear explanation of round robins. Now I just need to integrate round robins with velocities (should be easy ) I know how to create velocities per note but not in relation to round robins .

Do you want to post where you found the clear explanation? I would appreciate it. 

[NoPro]

4 hours ago, rAC said:

Do you want to post where you found the clear explanation? I would appreciate it. 

Round-Robins (RRs) allow you to play the same note repetitively and trigger different recordings of the same note. Sampling an instrument in this way results in natural variations in otherwise static patterns. This gives the instrument a realistic feel as each repeated note has a different performance.Round-Robins (RRs) allow you to play the same note repetitively and trigger different recordings of the same note. Sampling an instrument in this way results in natural variations in otherwise static patterns. This gives the instrument a realistic feel as each repeated note has a different “performance.

 

hope this helps . 

[rAC]

@NoProThanks for your reply. I was actually hoping for a more detailed explanation of what variables tend to be the best changed in round robining for various instruments eg velocity, filters, resonance, volume etc. And by what sort of amount.

[NoPro]

rAC,

im just learning myself about sampling/ creating sample based instruments etcI wish I could offer more information .

[David Nahmani]

3 hours ago, rAC said:

what variables tend to be the best changed in round robining for various instruments eg velocity, filters, resonance, volume etc. And by what sort of amount.

The ideal is to have different sets of samples that you're triggering pseudo-randomly with round robin. 

For example let's say I am making a hand percussion instrument, with both handclaps and finger snaps. If I record only one handclap and one finger snap, then repeated triggering of those sample is going to sound machine like. Instead I record let's say 8 handclaps and 8 finger snaps, and I use round robbin to trigger the samples in each group randomly. 

You'll hear that in Logic's Drum Kit Designer, for example if you create a 1 bar region with 4 snares or 4 hi-hats (one on each beat) and loop it, you'll notice that it triggers different samples randomly. 

[NoPro]

 

7 hours ago, David Nahmani said:

The ideal is to have different sets of samples that you're triggering pseudo-randomly with round robin. 

For example let's say I am making a hand percussion instrument, with both handclaps and finger snaps. If I record only one handclap and one finger snap, then repeated triggering of those sample is going to sound machine like. Instead I record let's say 8 handclaps and 8 finger snaps, and I use round robbin to trigger the samples in each group randomly. 

You'll hear that in Logic's Drum Kit Designer, for example if you create a 1 bar region with 4 snares or 4 hi-hats (one on each beat) and loop it, you'll notice that it triggers different samples randomly. 
 

great explanation here David !!!

Edited February 3, 2023 by NoPro

[des99]

Oh sorry - when you mentioned "round robins", I assumed you knew what they were...

11 hours ago, rAC said:

Thanks for your reply. I was actually hoping for a more detailed explanation of what variables tend to be the best changed in round robining for various instruments eg velocity, filters, resonance, volume etc. And by what sort of amount.

This is all super instrument-specific, and down to you to determine. The best way to do this is test. If you're sampling something simple, let's say, a xylophone, it's easy enough to record 50 hits on each notes, and then later decide what's the minimum amount of round robins you need to maintain the desired amount of realism. If you determine that you only really need five hits and it sounds fine, then obviously you can save time up front by not needing to record so many samples.

But for other things, say a snare drum, you may want a lot more round-robins samples to achieve the level of realism that's acceptable to you. Or you might be fine with three different hits. A lot of this comes from experience - instrument making is a very specialised artform, and the only way to get better at it is to make instruments, and learn from it.

As with all things in music (and art!), there are no recipes, only some useful guidelines - the details are down to you!