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Send program changes from Logic to Bricasti M7


roughmonkey

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This is odd. I'm slightly confused because your screenshot of the MIDI monitor showed data being sent which would suggest that those data should also be present in Logic. Could you double check with the MIDI monitor again? There is the possibility that Program Changes are only sent for certain parts of the M7's memory (again - the MIDI implementation chart/description is quite bad).

If you get Program Changes in the MIDI monitor please check if those are present in the MIDI activity display in Logic (alternatively: in the Environment).

 

 

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Hi Gacki,
Here is the screenshot of Midi Monitor. It did not record any program changes. I used the same setup as before.
I remember Matt at Liquid Sonics writing to me that the program changes are sent via System Exclusive (I quoted Matt above in this thread). I know what midi is but don't understand the intricacies of how various devices communicate with each other. 

image.thumb.png.30028af2ccdfc1a2ed02a1a0d9df33ee.png

Is the MIDI activity display in Logic the same as the Events list? In any case there was no info recorded in the Events list.

Thanks,
Mike

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Hi Gacki,
So I re-read the documentation (the language it seems is for tech people). I think I am starting to understand how it is supposed to work.
I set the Midi Bank to Plates. Now I am able to get some program changes to take effect. I used Latch and changed programs over 16 bars. Some of the changes were indeed sent to the Bricasti (it skipped or ignored others), I could see the program change on the Bricasti readout. The M7 Link did not change however.
On the Logic track the automation line did not indicate any changes (I could hear the changes though). For example the first plate in the list is Bright Plate with a Reverb Time of 2.0 seconds. The second plate is Dark Plate with a Reverb Time at 1.5 seconds. The automation line just stayed at 2.0 seconds for all programs that I selected. I also noted that if I place the pointer at various points along the 16 bars I could see the readout on the Bricasti change to reflect the program change for that section of the 16 bars. 
It's a start. 
Thanks for guiding me along this journey.
Mike

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As said previously (and in the manual), if you select different programs on the M7 (either directly or via MIDI program changes), M7Link won’t know anything about it, as the Bricasti does not send things to the plugin to let it know it’s state - they get out of sync. Basically, if you do things outside the plugin, you can’t use the plugin at all, and it certainly won’t write automation.

So this is expected behaviour.

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Hi Des,
Thank you for the reminder about the Bricasti not sending info to the plugin. That explains why I didn't see anything. 
The M7 Link works great as a plugin so it makes sense for me to prioritize using it over making changes on the hardware. If I make tweaks to a preset using the M7 Link I can save that preset within the M7 Link then call it up as needed.
Thanks,
Mike
 

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  • 9 months later...
On 2/23/2023 at 5:40 AM, des99 said:

Ok, so the M7 doesn't support program changes, and preset recall is handled by sysex dumps.

So, we have a couple of options - either we can save the sysex dump for each patch onto a Logic track so that at the appropriate point, Logic sends a new dump to the M7 to update all parameters, or we can try it through automation.

I'm not familiar with the feature set, but it might be possible to use parameter automation if the plugin supports this. Recall a preset, put Logic into automation latch mode, move the playhead, then recall a different preset. Because the parameters have now changed, they *might* generate automation events, and thus parameter recall might be able to be done via automation...

You know what, I'll download the demo of the plugin and have a look at the behaviour, it's probably easier if I can fiddle with it for a bit...

Edit: Ok, yes, it does work. If you create/view automation lanes for the parameters you want that change between presets, position the playhead at the beginning, then recall a new preset, the parameters change and automation gets written as expected.

I found the plugin flaky with automation though, it stopped reading automation after a while: 

 

So while this would be the preferred way to do it, it seems like it doesn't work that well (unless I'm missing something). Might be worth giving that feedback to Matt.

Leaving the other alternative - capturing the sysex the plugin outputs when recalling presets, and playing that back from within Logic - probably the more reliable method (assuming no sysex handshakes are required)...

Given how the hardware M7 doesn't support program changes, you can really see that people do not generally use them like this - switching between settings at different points in a song - they would usually pick a single treatment for the entire mix, and use different reverb devices for different treatments. This is why achieving what you want seems rather more painful than it should be, generally.

Hi. How did you do this ? I can't get my plugin to record the preset changes into the automation as is shown in your video. Also I cannot add all the parameters when clicking on the "plus" control to add all the parameter automation lanes. After about 8 it just says "Display off" and shows no parameter 😖

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38 minutes ago, michaelzfreeman said:

How did you do this ?

Nothing particularly special over what is already shown in the video.

39 minutes ago, michaelzfreeman said:

Also I cannot add all the parameters when clicking on the "plus" control to add all the parameter automation lanes. After about 8 it just says "Display off" and shows no parameter

You know that you choose the parameter you want each automation lane display by clicking on the parameter name (eg "Display off"), and selecting the parameter from the flip menu? All parameters exposed by the plugins on that track are in the list, and you can choose whatever lane you want to show whatever parameter you want...

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OK I sort of got it working by choosing the correct latch or write mode and using menu Mix --> Create Track Automation --> Create 2 Automation Points.

However I don't want to manually select a subset of parameters. I just want to add all available parameters but that dratted "Display off" is put in there by Logic rather than Logic auto adding the next available parameter 😬

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