Sometimes weird midi regions with question mark in the name - anyone else?

[HoraceWimp]

 

I've had a problem for months that no one else seems to have - I couldn't find anything about it anywhere.
For a while now (I guess since Logic 10.7.4 or so) Logic sometimes creates strange regions when recording (but also when copying regions or pasting with the pencil tool) that seem to contain midi data but don't play back. These regions show a "?" (question mark) as name in the inspector and cannot be renamed either. They also cannot be moved vertically to other tracks, horizontal moving works. If I delete them, the next recorded region is usually just as defective.
What helps is to move the region somewhere to the end or beginning of the track and not to touch it. After that you can continue working with the song normally
This is not an extreme problem, but still annoying.
I would be interested to know if anyone else besides me has observed this - and if there might be an explanation ? Better yet, a way to prevent this ?
Thanks and greetings
Helfried

 

[rAC]

What’s your hardware setup? Can you post a screenshot of these?

[HoraceWimp]

 

oh, sorry - I forgot about that: It's a Mac Studio Ultra with Monterey, Logic version 10.7.7.
Since I've had the problem for months, I've tried a lot of things. Once the error is in one song, it occurs on other computers and in other Logic versions. The "broken" region is saved with it.
In the attached video snippet you can see that the region cannot be moved up/down, cannot be renamed and does not play anything of its content. I can delete it - but then the next recorded/created region will have the same quirk.

 

[David Nahmani]

Could you attach that project here? 

[HoraceWimp]

Thank you ! here is a zip file, the two songs 1&1b are from an older project. In test1 there are no regions yet, what happens if you record one in it? here a broken region is created immediately. And in test1b I have already created a region.
test2 is from today (sorry, I deleted all other content from it, but the file is still quite big).

https://hidrive.ionos.com/share/qoptk-efzu

 

 

[HoraceWimp]

and more info: the audio interface at the moment is Focusrite Scarlett 18i8, but it also occurs with other interfaces, like with the Clarett 4pre or with internal audio. Otherwise no other special hardware is involved. Midi comes mostly via a RolandRD64 over USB, also connected is an Emagic AMT8. But since the problem also occurs when regions are pasted via copy & paste or pencil, the midi input may not be responsible.
But of course I'm not sure - the fact that no one else seems to have this problem suggests that it has something to do with my system. Only what? 
A fairly new Mac, Monterey OS, nothing special installed, a few AU plugins and instruments - which are often not involved when the error happens.
And it also seems to be independent whether I'm working on a very old project or creating a completely new song from scratch. At some point I have such a strange region.

[HoraceWimp]

and just now I noticed that (contrary to what I wrote at first) renaming the region is possible - it is just not displayed in the Inspector, the question mark remains there.

[David Nahmani]

Ok that's weird and I can't get rid of it. Indeed you can rename the region for example by pressing Shift-N, just that question mark in the Inspector. 

I'll try to inquire but it looks like project corruption. Found this old thread on that topic: 

[HoraceWimp]

Thanks David - yes , that does sound similar. In a very old thread. Very weird the whole thing.
Yes, if that had only occurred once, I wouldn't worry about it. But it keeps coming up - even in old and brand new songs, in different Logic versions, with different interfaces. 
I have quite a few songs here with regions like that, but otherwise they work.
So it's not a bad problem, fortunately. But irritating to see that I'm pretty much the only Logic user worldwide at the moment where it occurs 😉
And I don't have any other problems with the Mac, otherwise I might suspect an SSD problem or similar hardware issue. But then all sorts of different errors would show up - but everything else runs smoothly.
 

[JakobP]

6 hours ago, HoraceWimp said:

But it keeps coming up - even in old and brand new songs, in different Logic versions, with different interfaces. 

Dd you start those songs from a custom template ? Do you sometimes have  multiple projects open ?

[HoraceWimp]

 

I have the problem with songs I start from my relatively newly created default project as well as with some songs that are older, i.e. originally created under older Logic (<10.5). 
I never have multiple songs open at the same time, I wouldn't do that 🙂

And indeed it does not always occur. Some projects I can work on for weeks and it never happens. With others it happens right in the first hour. 

My default song also contains only a few plugins.... NI Kontakt , Additive Drums, Waves L2, Relab LX480 and SonsigRevA - and those are the only third party AUs in this project. Also only with them it has already occurred. But I would hardly blame them for it... but it must have some reason - mysterious.

 

[HoraceWimp]

 

and one more crazy thing in this context I forgot to mention - it just came to my attention again. 
If I delete the "broken region", it happens that the normally visible contents of the midi regions in the main window become invisible. If I then create a region again (which of course promptly appears broken again with "?") then the content display is also there again.

Something wild is happening in the whole structure of the project.
But as long as the bad region stays somewhere on the track, nothing bad happens further (so far).
I would be so happy if someone else would report such a behavior - then we could check out which are the commonalities of our configuration etc.. to maybe find the cause.

 

[AllTheButtons]

You're not the only one - I get this too! Happens at random to a project and then I just can't get rid of it.

I'm not sure, but I think it *might* happen when I've left the computer for a while with the project open, e.g. going to lunch. Perhaps something gets corrupted if the computer goes to sleep while the project is open?

[AllTheButtons]

Only solution I've found is that standard corrupted session fix - make a new session and import all the tracks.

[JakobP]

I've never seen this before, it seems if you create a region with the pencil tool, the bug appears; The region won't move to another track, and the name is displayed as "?" in the inspector. A quick workaround is to cmd+click the duplicate track button, and then simply delete the problem track with its region(s)...

[David Nahmani]

6 minutes ago, JakobP said:

it seems if you create a region with the pencil tool, the bug appears;

I can't reproduce it here. Is this in 10.5.1?

[JakobP]

Yes, it is...

[polanoid]

10 minutes ago, JakobP said:

I've never seen this before, it seems if you create a region with the pencil tool, the bug appears;

Only in the example project posted by @HoraceWimp, right? In that case it's also reproducible in 10.7.7 (but basically creating the region via pencil is similar to recording a new region)

[JakobP]

5 minutes ago, polanoid said:

Only in the example project posted by @HoraceWimp, right?

You're right, tried another and couldn't reproduce, and when going back to the example project I couldn't reproduce there either 😄 Somethings up with that project...

[polanoid]

2 minutes ago, JakobP said:

Somethings up with that project...

We can definitely agree on that...

[JakobP]

Other fun facts (or clues); There's no Loop checkbox for the region in the inspector, and it doesn't respond to the "Loop Regions.." ("L") keycommand when selected. It's also not possible to "lasso" select it...

[HoraceWimp]

3 hours ago, AllTheButtons said:

You're not the only one - I get this too!

 

Hey, thanks, well now it's getting interesting here. 
Welcome to the club, AllTheButtons 🙂 that's great, now we are already two who can create such broken logic regions.
We just don't know exactly how to do it yet.

I'm not sure about the "sleep" idea (as a possible cause). My Mac never actually goes into sleep mode because it doesn't work for me most of the time. Something of the many connected devices seems to prevent it - maybe.
The screensaver often runs when I'm not at the computer.

But I will test this out. 
And I'll create a list of my hard & software configuration (the most important), maybe we'll find some significant overlap that will help us to find the cause.

 

[HoraceWimp]

1 hour ago, JakobP said:

Other fun facts (or clues); There's no Loop checkbox for the region in the inspector, and it doesn't respond to the "Loop Regions.." ("L") keycommand when selected. It's also not possible to "lasso" select it...

ah - very good observation, indeed. i hadn't noticed that.

[HoraceWimp]

 

This is a summary of the things that are constantly connected to my Mac and the additional software that usually runs in the background - that loads at system startup. 

Mac Studio Ultra M1 - Mac 13.2 128 GB, OS Monterey, Logic Pro 10.7x

Connected via Thunderbolt:

Stardeck Dock TB2DOCK4K2DP -> Displayport 2x Display Samsung S24H85x
Apple Studio Display 27inch
Focusrite Clarett 4pre
Lacie Thunderbolt SSD

Connected via USB :

A few HDs and SSDs
USB Hubs
Verbatim Blu Ray Drive
Canon Pixma IP4600 Printer
Canon Scanner 5600F
Griffin PowerMate
Roland RD64
Emagic AMT8
Elgato StreamDeck MKII
Emagic XS-Key (for Sound Diver Windows in Parallels)

Software in background (most of the time):

Folivora - Better Snap Tool
Elgato StreamDeck
Focusrite Control
LuLu Firewall
Griffin PowerMate
Tunabelly Temperature Gauge Pro
Aerial Companion Screensaver

enclosed is a screenshot of my midi devices in the system,and there is an IAC driver for communication between Logic and Stream - see images.

As far as my configuration, I'm afraid there may be nothing unusual included. Is there perhaps an overlap in any component (hard or software) - @AllTheButtons?

 

[HoraceWimp]

to avoid confusion - I mostly use the Focusrite Clarett 4Pre, but since this has a small hardware problem, it is temporarily swapped for a Scarlett 18i8 - the strange region effect occurred with both anyway. So this doesn't seem to make any difference. 

[Burkhard Fincke]

Hi there, exactly all the same here. 

MacPro2019, OSX 12.6.3, Logic 10.7.7  - first I thought it´s been related with going to Monterey, but after testing on OSX 11 , the same issue.

Also with former Logic versions. 

The only solution is creating a new session and importing everything from the corrupted project.

Any fix so far?

 

[HoraceWimp]

 

hi Burkhard (from Germany ? - me too), welcome - now we are 3 🙂 
No, unfortunately I haven't found a solution yet. Is there anything in common with my configuration? Probably not, otherwise you would have mentioned it already.
I had it only once in the last week. And today it happened that a "?-region" that I had pushed to the very end in a Project to ignore it, was suddenly back to normal after opening the song. 
Everything is still mysterious.
But fortunately not so bad that it bothers much - just weird and irritating.

Beste Grüsse

Helfried

 

 

 

[Burkhard Fincke]

Hi Helfried, yes, from Germany too 😉

I am using UA Hardware (Thunderbolt) and many NVMe´s on several HighPoint controller PCI cards.

Komplete Kontrol 88 via USB, FVDE & Monogram CC Controllers as well as a stream deck via USB C, 49+34" Displays.

Unfortunately I don´t know when the problem appeard for the first time. But I did not change anything within the setup. It suddenly happened. Sometimes it´s okay for several days (with new projects) then it returns... so strange!

[HoraceWimp]

 

the only similarity that catches my eye is the Stream Deck, OK.
Do you use the Stream Deck midi plugin ?
I've had my Stream Deck running for quite a few months and honestly haven't paid attention to whether the error occurred for the first time after or before.
Maybe I'll deactivate it for a while to test it out (although that will be hard for me, I got so used to all the logic shortcuts and macros on the buttons that working without Stream Deck will be tedious ;-))

 

[AllTheButtons]

1 hour ago, HoraceWimp said:

the only similarity that catches my eye is the Stream Deck, OK.
Do you use the Stream Deck midi plugin ?

Ah that’s interesting. I’m also a user of the Stream Deck MIDI plugin, so that’s 3 of us.

BTW, my sleep theory didn’t pan out - had the issue again last week with a session that definitely hadn’t been left open when the computer went to sleep.