HoraceWimp Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 Yeah, that's great, so we have a suspected culprit - the Stream Deck Midi Plugin. I will at least deactivate it now and watch if something occurs again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheButtons Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 11 hours ago, HoraceWimp said: Yeah, that's great, so we have a suspected culprit - the Stream Deck Midi Plugin. I will at least deactivate it now and watch if something occurs again! Just checked, and none of my 'main page' buttons on the stream deck are using the MIDI plugin, so I wouldn't have been using them when this occurred (only a few esoteric articulation hacks on other profiles that I haven't used for a while). The only Stream Deck plugins I was actually using were the built in hotkeys functionality, the official Keyboard Maestro plugin, and the unofficial "KMLink" Keyboard Maestro plugin. Some of the KM scripts in turn run AppleScripts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkhard Fincke Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 I´ve just disconnected the Stream Deck and worked on a project (being affected by the ? regions) - unfortunately still the same here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakobP Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 On 2/27/2023 at 3:51 PM, JakobP said: A quick workaround is to cmd+click the duplicate track button, and then simply delete the problem track with its region(s)... Did you try this ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkhard Fincke Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Yes! This woks! I will keep working on this project and check the overall behaviour, also regarding the invisible region-content (... sometimes appearing) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoraceWimp Posted March 7, 2023 Author Share Posted March 7, 2023 3 hours ago, Burkhard Fincke said: I´ve just disconnected the Stream Deck and worked on a project (being affected by the ? regions) - unfortunately still the same here... does it also re-occur with disconnected stream deck? Because once it is in a project, then it happens everywhere. With me so far everything well after one day - I have not disconnected my stream deck, only the internal Midi connection (IAC driver) in Logic disabled. Will continue to observe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkhard Fincke Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Yes, it also happened while the Stream Deck was disconnected. 31 minutes ago, HoraceWimp said: Because once it is in a project, then it happens everywhere. You mean also in other projects or just everywhere inside one project? I will need to check this with new projects while the Stream Deck remains disconnected. By the way, I am using this without the IAC driver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoraceWimp Posted March 7, 2023 Author Share Posted March 7, 2023 I only meant that once a project is infected, the problem remains in the project, no matter on which computer or in which configuration it is opened. It is important to find out what is causing it. If it occurs in a project for the first time and Streamdeck was not active - then unfortunately Streamdeck is not the cause. But if it was already in the project before, deactivating streamdeck shouldn't help, because the project structure is probably already damaged - or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, HoraceWimp said: But if it was already in the project before, deactivating streamdeck shouldn't help, because the project structure is probably already damaged Exactly, as everyone not even owning a Streamdeck can verify by opening the "test1" project you uploaded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkhard Fincke Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Okay, it may take a while testing this without Stream Deck, because the problem occurs just sometimes. I had lots of projects totally being alright - with Stream Deck being enabled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoraceWimp Posted March 7, 2023 Author Share Posted March 7, 2023 yes - this lousy bug doesn't make it easy for us to find 😉 because it doesn't always show up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheButtons Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Arghhh just happened to me again - third session this week. Stream Deck is attached but not currently in use. There's another weird bug I'm getting that may be related... I've noticed it occurring just before the 'question mark' bug, could be a coincidence. Instrument tracks will start remaining record-armed when they are no longer selected. I'll realise I'm hearing two sounds at the same time, and when I go to look at the mixer, the previous track I had selected is still armed. Command-clicking the duplicate track button didn't help - everything I record on the duplicate track still gets the question mark. Basically once it starts happening to a session I can no longer record working MIDI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheButtons Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) Something I've just noticed on the session where this just started happening. The Display window is showing spurious MIDI output (see GIF below, showing the display with everything stopped). I don't know what's causing this. Also an unrelated instrument just changed parameters and it could only have come from spurious MIDI. I've unplugged my Stream Deck and it is still happening. Edited March 7, 2023 by AllTheButtons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 minute ago, AllTheButtons said: I don't know what's causing this. Choose Logic Pro > Control Surfaces > Bypass All Control Surfaces. Does that go away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheButtons Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Just now, David Nahmani said: Choose Logic Pro > Control Surfaces > Bypass All Control Surfaces. Does that go away? Yes it did! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoraceWimp Posted March 7, 2023 Author Share Posted March 7, 2023 45 minutes ago, AllTheButtons said: Instrument tracks will start remaining record-armed when they are no longer selected. I'll realise I'm hearing two sounds at the same time, and when I go to look at the mixer, the previous track I had selected is still armed. Ah, that's a good observation, because I've noticed similar things too - I've just never been able to find a real correlation. It's true, often the "? error" occurs after two tracks were accidentally record armed at the same time, I've noticed that a few times. Since apparently the record-arm behavior of tracks in Logic has changed since some 10.7 (?) version anyway, double recordings happen to me very often. I just have to look very carefully now that I really only have the tracks "red" that I want to record, in previous versions this worked somehow smoother coupled to the selection. And sometimes (but not always) directly after such "double recordings" also "? regions" appear here, so after that the error occurs. I'll have to pay close attention to whether this ALWAYS happens in this context, I'm not sure now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoraceWimp Posted March 7, 2023 Author Share Posted March 7, 2023 7 minutes ago, AllTheButtons said: Yes it did! And now it is interesting if with "bypass all control surfaces" the error may never appear again. I just activated this for me, I don't use any control surfaces anyway (except Stream Deck, and that almost only for key commands). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkhard Fincke Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 hour ago, AllTheButtons said: There's another weird bug I'm getting that may be related... I've noticed it occurring just before the 'question mark' bug, could be a coincidence. Instrument tracks will start remaining record-armed when they are no longer selected. I'll realise I'm hearing two sounds at the same time, and when I go to look at the mixer, the previous track I had selected is still armed. exactly the same here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakobP Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 2 hours ago, AllTheButtons said: Command-clicking the duplicate track button didn't help - everything I record on the duplicate track still gets the question mark. The idea is to include all the regions when duplicating, the regions will then handle like normal regions. I guess you would have to do it again after a new recording... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheButtons Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 5 minutes ago, JakobP said: The idea is to include all the regions when duplicating, the regions will then handle like normal regions. I guess you would have to do it again after a new recording... Ah ok I’ll try that tomorrow. One weird thing I’ve noticed is that when I alt-drag a region to copy it, it becomes a ? region, but if I copy THAT region, it goes back to normal. So I go through this routine of copying the region to the end of the track, and then copying that to where I actually wanted it to go 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoraceWimp Posted March 8, 2023 Author Share Posted March 8, 2023 (edited) wow , I was just able to create even two "?-regions" in an almost naked, new Project by record-enabling several tracks and just recording them randomly. One of the recorded regions also ended up in a different place than it was recorded - at the beginning of the song on another track. So it probably actually has to do with the simultaneous multiple-track midi recording and not with Streamdeck or anything else in the periphery. We're getting a lot closer, I think. Edited March 8, 2023 by HoraceWimp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoraceWimp Posted March 8, 2023 Author Share Posted March 8, 2023 (edited) And it seems to be related to whether "loop"(cycle) is enabled during recording or not. Without loop everything works as it should - when recording with loop enabled the error happens. Here are two videos, one recording with and one without loop. I can reproduce it perfectly here at the moment. you can see that after loop recording, one region jumps to the beginning on a new track, and another region jumps to another track newly created at that moment. Both are broken and have the question mark in the Inspector. edit: this is now more or less obsolete, see next post multiple midi track recording_loop.mp4 multiple midi track recording_no loop.mp4 Edited March 8, 2023 by HoraceWimp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoraceWimp Posted March 8, 2023 Author Share Posted March 8, 2023 No, it's not just the cycle. Apparently it happens with the settings for Cycle Off/On: "Create Tracks and Mute", "create Tracks" and "Create Take Folder" when recordings overlap and are recorded on multiple tracks. I can reproduce it that way without "cycle". Why it wasn't like this in the previous attempts is probably because no recordings overlapped when cycle was off. So the last two videos are no longer valid as 100% evidence on the way to the solution. So - if I activate two or more tracks for record and then record on all of them at the same time several times in succession at the same place, then these defective regions occur. When the settings are set to "overlap" or "merge" etc... it doesn't seem to happen (I won't put my hand in the fire for that, need to test more). So it looks like creating tracks while recording is responsible for the problem. Here is a video without "cycle", first I record several overlapping takes in "overlap" mode, then I switch to "create tracks" and it becomes problematic. (Sorry, it is a bit long, but you can see what is meant - I hope) Create Track Problem_.mp4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoraceWimp Posted March 8, 2023 Author Share Posted March 8, 2023 from now on I will use these settings for now - see picture. And hopefully this is a "working workaround" 😃 until the bug is fixed. Sorry for spamming the thread tonight, but maybe it's helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 @HoraceWimp great sleuthing! 100% reproducible over here. Did you report this to Apple already? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, Burkhard Fincke said: Instrument tracks will start remaining record-armed when they are no longer selected. They will remain record-armed when you manually armed them (i.e., clicked the R button in the track header). This is expected behaviour. Same as Audio Tracks really. Simply selecting them should not make them permanently rec-enabled. If you're seeing that, that would be a bug. Edited March 8, 2023 by polanoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheButtons Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 (edited) 44 minutes ago, polanoid said: Simply selecting them should not make them permanently rec-enabled. If you're seeing that, that would be a bug. Yes this is exactly the bug I've been experiencing. In fact, when it first happened, I didn't have the Record button visible at all, so I was pulling my hair out trying to work out what was going on until I made it visible. It's intermittent. At random a channel will simply get stuck in record. Edited March 8, 2023 by AllTheButtons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheButtons Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 Great work @HoraceWimp! Am I right in saying this is a combination of 2 bugs? 1. Sometimes channels get stuck in record, so you are recording to two tracks without realising. 2. When you record to two tracks in a mode that creates new tracks, this results in the ? regions. On other words, Bug 2 is the immediate cause of the issue, but Bug 1 puts us in a situation where we will experience it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, AllTheButtons said: Yes this is exactly the bug I've been experiencing. In fact, when it first happened, I didn't have the Record button visible at all, so I was pulling my hair out trying to work out what was going on until I made it visible. It's intermittent. At random a channel will simply get stuck in record. Can you find out any way how to reproduce this reliably? Would be good to report this to Apple. BTW there is a key command (Ctrl-R per default I guess) that will rec-enable tracks (even if the rec button isn't visible), so maybe you inadvertently used that? Edited March 8, 2023 by polanoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkhard Fincke Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 7 hours ago, HoraceWimp said: from now on I will use these settings for now - see picture. And hopefully this is a "working workaround" 😃 until the bug is fixed. Sorry for spamming the thread tonight, but maybe it's helpful. I just tried this with a new project, and promptly a ? region appeared while recording in cycle-mode. I then turned off the cycle and recorded again on the same track - and it worked. ?region merged.mp4 And then I can record with or without cycle, it still works. Also, I now can select both the ?-region plus the not affected region and merge them. Finally there is a clean region which can be edited and dragged/copied as well 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.