Editing Audio In Logic ???

[Pianoworldstage]

 

Hi

I'm trying to attenuate the dynamics on certain piano notes with a audio file in Logic, I work exclusively with midi, hence the reason I'm struggling with editing audio, how therfore can i reduce the velocity level, or as in audio the volume with certain notes

Thanks.

 

[scg]

There are various ways to do that. What's the content like? Is it a polyphonic part, and you want some chords to be more or less loud?

In any case, have you considered using automation? It seems like that might be the most straightforward solution.

[rAC]

You’ve said its an audio file therefore you wont be able to reduce the velocity of the notes: which leaves you with reducing and/or boosting the volume of the file in parts. As @scg suggested automation of the volume would seem to be the easiest solution but another might be to use an expander plugin ie one that has the opposite effect to a compressor and therefore could expand the dynamic range of what’s in the audio file.

Edited March 2, 2023 by rAC
clarity of expression

[Mania]

Use the marquee tool to select the problematic notes then click on them to cut and make new regions (so cut up your audio region isolating the notes you want to adjust)Then use the new gain tool, and change the gain on those regions(notes).

[LogicProXTemplates]

I'd be tempted to adjust the velocity in the piano roll for any notes that need decreasing/increasing in volume. A compressor or multipressor would also help to soften anything that sticks out too much.

[des99]

2 minutes ago, LogicProXTemplates said:

I'd be tempted to adjust the velocity in the piano roll for any notes that need decreasing/increasing in volume.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the OP, he said he's working with an audio file, so editing the individual notes like you can with MIDI is not an option.

Edited March 2, 2023 by des99

[LogicProXTemplates]

11 minutes ago, des99 said:

Unless I'm misunderstanding the OP, he said he's working with an audio file, so editing the individual notes like you can with MIDI is not an option.

The OP said he works exclusively with MIDI so he must have the ability to adjust the velocities.

[scg]

4 minutes ago, LogicProXTemplates said:

The OP said he works exclusively with MIDI so he must have the ability to adjust the velocities.

The way I read the OP's post, they typically use MIDI, but are working with audio in this case, hence the question. (If that's wrong, presumably they'll clarify.)

[Pianoworldstage]

1 hour ago, scg said:

The way I read the OP's post, they typically use MIDI, but are working with audio in this case, hence the question. (If that's wrong, presumably they'll clarify.)

Correct, It's an audio file therefore as mentioned adjusting velocity levels is not an option. I considered using compression to attenuate for the loud notes, but applying compression has a tendency to change the overall sound of the audio itself which is what I'm trying to avoid. I tried using  automation to reduce the loud notes but found this caused the notes to sound slightly compressed and diminished which reduced the quality.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Pianoworldstage

[scg]

2 minutes ago, Pianoworldstage said:

Correct, It's an audio file therefore as mentioned adjusting velocity levels is not an option. I considered using compression to attenuate for the loud notes, but applying compression has a tendency to change the overall sound of the audio itself which is what I'm trying to avoid. I tried using  automation to reduce the loud notes but found this caused the notes to sound slightly compressed and diminished which reduced the quality.

It might be useful to parse the terms 'compressed' and 'diminished' here to better figure out what you're going for exactly. If 'diminished' just means reduced in volume, then obviously that would be the goal, so presumably you mean something else by that. In any case, simply lowering the volume shouldn't reduce the quality, and wouldn't constitute a typical application of compression, so I do wonder what you're hearing there. A question that might be worth asking is, is there any form of volume reduction that wouldn't create the subjective effect you describe? If not, then maybe volume reduction isn't actually what you want.

As for compression, have you tried setting the parameters so that reduction is moderate and relatively transparent and only occurs during the parts you want to reduce? If so, are you saying the effect sounds unnatural?

It also seems possible that what's bothering you about the unaltered audio is frequency-dependent, in which case maybe EQ or multiband compression could help. (You could try using an analyzer to see if the volume peaks are concentrated in a specific frequency range.)

In any case, it seems whatever method you use (whether compression, automation, creating separate regions and adjusting gain as previously mentioned, or some other method) is going to alter the sound, and in fact altering the sound is the express goal. It seems like the challenge then is to settle on a method that produces results that are sufficiently natural and transparent to your ears. I can't think of any guaranteed solutions for that, but maybe others can offer some suggestions 🙂

[markno999]

12 hours ago, Mania said:

Use the marquee tool to select the problematic notes then click on them to cut and make new regions (so cut up your audio region isolating the notes you want to adjust)Then use the new gain tool, and change the gain on those regions(notes).

I think you have a couple options.   1) do as Mania said above, split your clips and use clip gain to pull that section down.   2)  another option that may work if you have a very clean recording is to use Melodyne to pull down velocities of individual notes.   I use this method on vocals a lot and have had some success with piano as well.    Kind of hit or miss though and depends on how well Melodyne is able to interpret the track.

Regards

[Pianoworldstage]

A recommendation was to use midi controller lanes (lane sets) that can be  draw in values for midi cc parameters, what ever that means? it sounds technical but would like to approach this option to see if it could be a solution? Therfore has anyone worked with the above, and how would I go about applying this method?

[David Nahmani]

1 minute ago, Pianoworldstage said:

A recommendation was to use midi controller lanes (lane sets) that can be  draw in values for midi cc parameters, what ever that means? it sounds technical but would like to approach this option to see if it could be a solution? Therfore has anyone worked with the above, and how would I go about applying this method?

If it's an audio file then you can't control it with MIDI Controller automation lanes. But in any case the result would be the same as when you're using volume automation. 

You may never be happy with any solution available and in that case you would have to go back to the MIDI programming.

For example if you play the first note too soft and sustain it while you play a new note too loud, reducing the level of the second note with volume automation will inevitably result in also reducing the level of the sustain of the first note, which will sound unnatural. 

[fusbur]

I think the point here is understanding that recording audio is source dependant, ie, the performer needs to kinda get it right rather than trying to fix it in the mix. If you've got clunky bits you're not happy with, you'd be 'dropping in' using the punch in tool to rerecord and correct those parts before moving on to mixing.

[Dan Banan]

For tasks like this I would recommend Kilohertz Dynamics plugin. It can do both up and downwards compression simultaneously. It's free and apple silicon.

Link:

https://kilohearts.com/products/dynamics

 

[David Nahmani]

Just now, Dan Banan said:

For tasks like this I would recommend Kilohertz Dynamics plugin.

Thank you for sharing that plug-in, looks great and I'll add it to our free plug-in thread. 

I also wanted to mention that in situations like this, if it's not possible to go back to the original MIDI sequence to polish it, then you may want to experiment with not just one of the listed solutions, but a combination of several of them. Depending on the situation, you can consider combining some compression with some volume automation, really focusing on the results you're hearing and not staying married to a single plug-in or editing technique. 

[Pianoworldstage]

Thanks to everyone for your support on this post.