Gain Staging & Mastering

[Anne22]

Hi. I have downloaded some midi files from midiworld.com to see how they are gain-staged and mastered. All of them, especially stereo out, are clipping, i.e. going into red, and some files even produce a harsh distortion. I believe these midi files are created on a pro level, then is it something wrong with my PC or my Logic Pro Apps? Thank you. 

[des99]

MIDIfiles have nothing at all to do with audio - how the audio is rendered is entirely down to the instruments, mixing and so on that you set on your gear, whether you're playing the data back on hardware synths into a real mixer, or a DAW, or something in between...

If your mix is too hot, you can pull down the output fader for a quick way of dealing with it.

But generally, looking at MIDIfiles isn't going to help you with audio-related concerns like mastering and gain-staging. You might be better off looking at, for example, the commercial demo projects that come with Logic, which are actually full audio + MIDI projects, and professionally mixed, using the resources available in Logic, for some ideas in that direction.

Edited March 6, 2023 by des99

[David Nahmani]

MIDI files are basically instructions that tell instruments which notes to play and when, but they don't contain audio. That means the same MIDI file played back in different sequencers will sound different and have different levels. 

So it's possible the the person who produced a MIDI file was hearing a perfectly sound mix, properly gain staged in his sequencer, but when you import that same MIDI file in Logic, it's triggering sounds that are too loud and clipping, creating distortion. 

 

[Anne22]

2 hours ago, des99 said:

MIDIfiles have nothing at all to do with audio - how the audio is rendered is entirely down to the instruments, mixing and so on that you set on your gear, whether you're playing the data back on hardware synths into a real mixer, or a DAW, or something in between...

If your mix is too hot, you can pull down the output fader for a quick way of dealing with it.

But generally, looking at MIDIfiles isn't going to help you with audio-related concerns like mastering and gain-staging. You might be better off looking at, for example, the commercial demo projects that come with Logic, which are actually full audio + MIDI projects, and professionally mixed, using the resources available in Logic, for some ideas in that direction.

Thank you. Where can I find such MIDI projects you are referring to? Do I need to apply Gain plugin on all tracks?

[David Nahmani]

Des mentions Logic projects made of audio and/or MIDI tracks. You can find a demo project in Logic (File > New from Template then click the "Demo Projects" category in the left column, and choose a demo project.

There are a couple of professionally mixed full audio+MIDI projects that come along with my book as well: https://www.logicprohelp.com/logic-pro-book/

13 minutes ago, Anne22 said:

Do I need to apply Gain plugin on all tracks?

No, there's generally no need for that, unless you have a specific goal in mind? 

[Anne22]

11 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

Des mentions Logic projects made of audio and/or MIDI tracks. You can find a demo project in Logic (File > New from Template then click the "Demo Projects" category in the left column, and choose a demo project.

There are a couple of professionally mixed full audio+MIDI projects that come along with my book as well: https://www.logicprohelp.com/logic-pro-book/

No, there's generally no need for that, unless you have a specific goal in mind? 

Thank you David. Youtube "gurus" say the faders on all tracks should be at 0db, but this seems strange to me as all tracks cannot be at the same volume level, unless gain-staged. What do you think?

Edited March 6, 2023 by Anne22

[David Nahmani]

8 hours ago, Anne22 said:

Youtube "gurus" say the faders on all tracks should be at 0db, but this seems strange to me as all tracks cannot be at the same volume level, unless gain-staged. What do you think?

I think you need to stop listening to youtube gurus! 🙂 

No seriously the problems is that a lot of people make a whole lot of fuss around gain staging, as if their method is the ultimate method that should always be followed precisely or you risk getting distortion. 

But there's no such thing. 

Personally I think you should not use gain plug-ins, just use the volume faders as you please to get the desired instrument balance in the mix. If you want the piano soft and the voice loud, there's nothing wrong with having the volume fader of the piano way down and the volume fader of the voice way up. 

If on one specific channel strip, it becomes impractical because the volume fader is too far up or down and you don't have any more maneuvering room, then you can insert a Gain plug-in on that channel strip to compensate, but there's no hard set rule that says you should always do that. 

To get an idea, you can open File > New from Template, click "Demo Projects" on the left and open the Lil Nas X - Montero project, then open all the track stacks and look at the volume fader positions. They're all way down. Nothing wrong with that. 

[polanoid]

1 hour ago, David Nahmani said:

I think you need to stop listening to youtube gurus! 🙂 

Amen!

[Anne22]

On 3/6/2023 at 4:57 AM, David Nahmani said:

I think you need to stop listening to youtube gurus! 🙂 

No seriously the problems is that a lot of people make a whole lot of fuss around gain staging, as if their method is the ultimate method that should always be followed precisely or you risk getting distortion. 

But there's no such thing. 

Personally I think you should not use gain plug-ins, just use the volume faders as you please to get the desired instrument balance in the mix. If you want the piano soft and the voice loud, there's nothing wrong with having the volume fader of the piano way down and the volume fader of the voice way up. 

If on one specific channel strip, it becomes impractical because the volume fader is too far up or down and you don't have any more maneuvering room, then you can insert a Gain plug-in on that channel strip to compensate, but there's no hard set rule that says you should always do that. 

To get an idea, you can open File > New from Template, click "Demo Projects" on the left and open the Lil Nas X - Montero project, then open all the track stacks and look at the volume fader positions. They're all way down. Nothing wrong with that. 

Hi David.  I think many readers here will thank you for this excellent and sought answer. I was too busy these days to reply to you because several employers simultaneously responded to my job application and I had to cope with all of them :). Thank you for taking time to explain all this to me!

Edited March 8, 2023 by Anne22

[David Nahmani]

You're welcome! Happy to hear my answer helped. 🙂 

1 hour ago, Anne22 said:

I was too busy these days to reply to you because several employers simultaneously responded to my job application and I had to cope with all of them

Sounds like a good problem to have!! Congrats on all the job applications responses and good luck with that. 

[Anne22]

On 3/6/2023 at 4:57 AM, David Nahmani said:

To get an idea, you can open File > New from Template, click "Demo Projects" on the left and open the Lil Nas X - Montero project, then open all the track stacks and look at the volume fader positions. They're all way down. Nothing wrong with that. 

Hi David. The demo song sounds good with no clippings, although the stereo out goes into red. Is this normal? I suppose this must be regarded as normal unless you hear any distortion or clipping.  

[David Nahmani]

The level meters go into the red section but the peak level display stays orange and tops at -0.0 dBFS which means there's no distortion, so yes, that's normal.