Importing One Shot Software Instrument Apple Loop converts to audio

[Danny Wyatt]

Today I used the One Shot option to create an Apple Loop, but then when I drag and drop to my project, even though the icon is a Software Instrument, all I get is the audio. This happens with another stock file called Synth Swirl 05, so why is it showing a green icon, when in fact we can't edit it? Is there a way to change this other than saving it as a loop?

 

Edited March 10 by Danny Wyatt

[polanoid]

you need to drag it onto a software instrument track. do you?

[David Nahmani]

What @polanoidsaid.

More details: either drag to an existing software instrument track or drag below the last track at the bottom of your Tracks area to create a new software instrument track. 

If you drag to an existing audio track then Logic imports the audio file rather than recreating the MIDI region. 

[Danny Wyatt]

@polanoidand @David Nahmani have you tried that loop I mentioned? Synth Swirl 05?

The issue is not how to import loops/one shots (I'm very familiar with how to do it, of course), but the issue is that both the loop I created and that Synth Swirl 05 file are the only ones set to One Shot (they show the time instead of beats next to their name) and at the same time are shown as Software Instruments.

That's why it's not making any sense.

[David Nahmani]

Oh you're right! That loop creates an audio track. Weird! 

[Danny Wyatt]

Just now, David Nahmani said:

Oh you're right! That loop creates an audio track. Weird! 

If you try to create your own One Shot, it will be the same thing. So the issue is in that process, which is kinda weird, only because it's saved/shown as Software instrument.

Are you able to test it in an older version?

I mean, I don't mind saving it as a loop from now on (I don't think I've ever used the One Shot anyway), now that I know how it behaves, but it's kinda strange.

[David Nahmani]

Just now, Danny Wyatt said:

If you try to create your own One Shot, it will be the same thing.

I just did, and you're right. I suppose that's a bug. 

[Danny Wyatt]

@David Nahmani

Still on the Apple Loops browser here's another thing that's confusing me: the loop Capitol C Violins 1, for example, when you preview it it has this nice reverb and all that, but once you import it, it's a dry sound and even the performance and sound itself has nothing to do with the audio from the loop. I mean, pretty much all of those types of loops sound great when you audition them, but when imported they sound "meh".

Do you experience that? Am I missing something here?

Edited March 10 by Danny Wyatt

[David Nahmani]

1 minute ago, Danny Wyatt said:

Do you experience that? Am I missing something here?

Yes this has been going on for as long as GarageBand has been around. Basically the loop was created with a specific articulation (the performance) and reverb but while in GarageBand those are recreated when you drag the loop, they're not recreated when you use the loops in Logic Pro. 

[Danny Wyatt]

1 minute ago, David Nahmani said:

Yes this has been going on for as long as GarageBand has been around. Basically the loop was created with a specific articulation (the performance) and reverb but while in GarageBand those are recreated when you drag the loop, they're not recreated when you use the loops in Logic Pro. 

Oh I see, so there are loops specific for GarageBand, huh? That sucks, because those sound great... 

So do you think having GarageBand installed would help in terms of auditioning the loop inside Logic and then opening that loop with GarageBand, saving the project (GB) and then opening it with Logic? Is it possible?

[gacki]

I had a similar problem with saving Patterns as Loops yesterday but can't really reproduce it anymore - at some point it simply started to work (before this I also got Audio loops only - even while the loop itself was clearly marked as Pattern).

Which leads to another question: Where exactly are the Pattern and MIDI Loops saved? If I see this correctly in addition to the Pattern/MIDI Loop also an Audio Loop is automatically generated and stored in ~/Library/Audio/Apple Loops/User Loops/SingleFiles/? But where the actual MIDI data for this loop?

[Danny Wyatt]

5 minutes ago, gacki said:

I had a similar problem with saving Patterns as Loops yesterday but can't really reproduce it anymore - at some point it simply started to work (before this I also got Audio loops only - even while the loop itself was clearly marked as Pattern).

Which leads to another question: Where exactly are the Pattern and MIDI Loops saved? If I see this correctly in addition to the Pattern/MIDI Loop also an Audio Loop is automatically generated and stored in ~/Library/Audio/Apple Loops/User Loops/SingleFiles/? But where the actual MIDI data for this loop?

As someone pointed out to me a while ago, the .aiff file itself saves all the data, including the MIDI, plugins being used, etc, so yeah, all files inside the path you shared, carry all the information.

It was a surprise to me, because I was wondering the exact same thing

5 minutes ago, gacki said:

I had a similar problem with saving Patterns as Loops yesterday but can't really reproduce it anymore

But were you also using the One Shot option on the "Add Region to Apple Loops Library" like I did, or were you experiencing that even using the Loop option?

EDIT: never mind, I just read it again and you were using the Loops option... my bad...

That's super weird.

Edited March 10 by Danny Wyatt

[gacki]

3 minutes ago, Danny Wyatt said:

But were you also using the One Shot option on the "Add Region to Apple Loops Library" like I did, or were you experiencing that even using the Loop option?

I was using the Loop option and first failed on Logic 10.5 and also on 10.7. The symptoms however were the same: audio only, even when dragging the loop back onto the track it originated from.

[Danny Wyatt]

7 minutes ago, gacki said:

I was using the Loop option and first failed on Logic 10.5 and also on 10.7. The symptoms however were the same: audio only, even when dragging the loop back onto the track it originated from.

I'm having no issues with the Patterns, only the Software Instrument when saved as One Shot.

But you mentioned that everything's back to normal, right? That's good. It was just a glitch, I guess. This with the Software Instruments seems to actually be a bug.

[gacki]

Now I can reproduce it (at least on 10.6.3; I'm not at home right now):

Exporting Patterns out of Live Loops also results in the "Loop automatically turns into Audio Loop" problem. This has weird consequences: The same Pattern exports in a different way depending on its location - in the linear tracks it exports fine.

[Danny Wyatt]

5 minutes ago, gacki said:

Now I can reproduce it (at least on 10.6.3; I'm not at home right now):

Exporting Patterns out of Live Loops also results in the "Loop automatically turns into Audio Loop" problem. This has weird consequences: The same Pattern exports in a different way depending on its location - in the linear tracks it exports fine.

I never used Live Loops so I can't really comment on that, but it's indeed really weird that it's a bit random...

Nothing like always testing the exported loops and make sure everything is good to go, I guess...

What a bummer

[gacki]

Here's the screenshot:

The loop "ZZZZ 01" was generated from the region on the track; dragging it into the empty space in the Arrange window generates a new instrument track (as it should).

The loop "ZZZZ 02" was generated from the cell in Live Loops; dragging it into the empty space generates an audio track. Since I noticed that no key had been exported by default when exporting out of the cell I tried this once more explicitely with "C" key; this was "ZZZZ 03" and the results are the same as before.

I'm getting the impression that the whole code for "Export to Loop Library" is buggy. This is all on 10.6.3 right now but I think those were the steps that led to similar results in 10.7.7 (or 10.7.6?) fro me yesterday too.

 

Edited March 10 by gacki

[polanoid]

6 hours ago, gacki said:

The loop "ZZZZ 02" was generated from the cell in Live Loops; dragging it into the empty space generates an audio track. Since I noticed that no key had been exported by default when exporting out of the cell I tried this once more explicitely with "C" key; this was "ZZZZ 03" and the results are the same as before.

I can not reproduce this at all in 10.7.7. No idea how you are "getting the impression that the whole code for 'Export to Loop Library' is buggy", the one-shot thing looks more like an import bug to me.

[gacki]

26 minutes ago, polanoid said:

I can not reproduce this at all in 10.7.7.

Neither can I in 10.7.6 today - but as I wrote in 10.6.3 it's reproducable for me (and don't even get me started on 10.5.1...).

27 minutes ago, polanoid said:

No idea how you are "getting the impression that the whole code for 'Export to Loop Library' is buggy", the one-shot thing looks more like an import bug to me.

More bugs and inconsistencies in 10.7.6:

- You can drag a region from a linear track into the loop browser (to create a loop) but you can't do it with Cells.

- You can select more than one region on a linear track and export them into loops; if you do the same with Cells you get the dialog box but no loops are actually created.

- If you export several regions at once on a linear track the dialog looks as follows:

Where does that "Multiple selection" for Genre come from? If I export a single region it will default to "None" for Genre. Fine - so maybe this is to serve as an additional reminder that several regions are selected - but then why not do the same for Scale and Key?

That all looks like the export side to me.

 

[polanoid]

Thanks @gacki, it’s always good to have these things listed somewhere for later reference (even bugs in older versions that habe since been fixed, because sone people have to use older versions due to older hardware). Still I wouldn’t call loop export „buggy“ per se, to me this always sounds like „close to unusable“.

Edited March 10 by polanoid

[gacki]

On 3/10/2023 at 11:14 PM, polanoid said:

Still I wouldn’t call loop export „buggy“ per se, to me this always sounds like „close to unusable“.

To me it doesn't; I consider something "buggy" if several bugs are present within one single "conceptual block" inside the software. Those can even be just minor bugs with simple workarounds.

I've reproduced in the meantime the 10.7.6 bugs/behavior on 10.7.7.

Here is another oddity:

I'm creating a simple Pattern on the first track and export this as a Loop. Then I drag this Loop from the Loop Browser into the Arrangement window to create a new track. This track is properly created including the Plugin chain - but for some odd reason the fader is raised to +4.5 dB. I export this Pattern anew and drag this second Loop into the Arrangement window as before - a new track is created with fader set to +4.7 dB. For the next iteration is it again 4.5, then 4.5, then again 4.7.

When I drag the original Loop down to create a new track it is set correctly to 0 dB.

The fader value is somehow baked into the loop; and it seems to be independent of the original fader value.

 

[Danny Wyatt]

3 hours ago, gacki said:

To me it doesn't; I consider something "buggy" if several bugs are present within one single "conceptual block" inside the software. Those can even be just minor bugs with simple workarounds.

I've reproduced in the meantime the 10.7.6 bugs/behavior on 10.7.7.

Here is another oddity:

I'm creating a simple Pattern on the first track and export this as a Loop. Then I drag this Loop from the Loop Browser into the Arrangement window to create a new track. This track is properly created including the Plugin chain - but for some odd reason the fader is raised to +4.5 dB. I export this Pattern anew and drag this second Loop into the Arrangement window as before - a new track is created with fader set to +4.7 dB. For the next iteration is it again 4.5, then 4.5, then again 4.7.

When I drag the original Loop down to create a new track it is set correctly to 0 dB.

The fader value is somehow baked into the loop; and it seems to be independent of the original fader value.

If you haven't already, please report this directly to Apple (https://www.apple.com/feedback/logic-pro.html) and even include a link to this thread in case they need more information, since it can be a bit too much info for their form. At least that's what I do every time I report or suggest something.

[David Nahmani]

I reported it, Apple is aware of this issue.