IAC feedback loop

[Raoulsplace]

Hi everyone,

I am using the IAC bus driver to capture Midi notes.
To avoid feedback loop I have to do something in the environment but I cannot find what it is on the internet.

What do I have to do in the Environment to avoid these feedback loops?
The environment is big and I do not know much about it, please specify in which Environment 'Layer' I have to be.

Thanks

 

[David Nahmani]

10 hours ago, Raoulsplace said:

What do I have to do in the Environment to avoid these feedback loops?

It depends what you're doing exactly with the IAC bus, that's creating the feedback loop? If you're simply routing MIDI notes to the IAC bus and recording the notes on a new software instrument track, there should be no feedback loop. 

[Raoulsplace]

6 hours ago, David Nahmani said:

It depends what you're doing exactly with the IAC bus, that's creating the feedback loop? If you're simply routing MIDI notes to the IAC bus and recording the notes on a new software instrument track, there should be no feedback loop. 

I make use of a Midi FX plugin called ChordPolyPad.
In the ChordPolyPad app I program my chords (also have it op iPad), so I prefer ChordPolyPad over Chord Trigger.

The reason why I use the IAC Driver Bus is because when I play the ChordPolyPad in Logic as a Midi Fx I have to press 1 key on my midi keyboard and the Chord which I've programmed will be played.

I want to capture the Chord in stead of the 1-note. With the MidiFxFreeze I cannot capture the chord.
When I enable 'Record Midi to Track Here' in Midi Fx it also does not capture the Chord.
However when I use an IAC bus I CAN capture the chord but there is a terrible Feedback Loop and Logic gets stuck sometimes after this feedback loop.

This is the way I set it up
- Created IAC driver in Audio/Midi Settings.
- Opened a Piano on a new software instrument.
- Opened a External Instrument and set it to IAC bus-1.
- Opened ChordPolyPad on the External Instrument track.
- Record enabled the Piano track.
- With the External Instrument track selected, played some notes in ChordPolyPad.
- The Piano track receives it good but not for long.

Now the feedback loop starts.

I guess I have to tweak some settings in (a) particular Layer(s) the Environment but I am a tiny bit familiar with the Environment.

So I need to know what I exactly have to do to avoid a feedback loop in my future works.

Thanks in advance.

[David Nahmani]

4 minutes ago, Raoulsplace said:

With the External Instrument track selected

Ah you want to play that track live while capturing the chords? 

[Raoulsplace]

12 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

Ah you want to play that track live while capturing the chords? 

Exactly, I wanna play it live.
In stead of enabling the record button I use the Capture as recording key command in Logic. So I wanna play the ChordPolyPad Live and press the Capture as Recording Key Command afterwards.

[volovicg]

You actually don't have to do anything in the environment ( you could and there are several options...) but..... there is a simpler one for your case.     

In project settings go into Midi -> Midi through and select the instrument object you don't want to not allow midi thru on ( creating the feedback loop).  In this case I named the external instrument object Multi-using-Iac - but it can be any name - just so long it is the one associated with the IAC port.  Pick the one without a midi channel ( this will then do it for all midi channels). Once selected.... disable and re-enable the record button button on the iac track and your issue should be resolved. It you are using multiple tracks to the IAC - make sure you have the once selected that you have highlighted as the live track when playing/recording. 

 

[Raoulsplace]

9 minutes ago, volovicg said:

You actually don't have to do anything in the environment ( you could and there are several options...) but..... there is a simpler one for your case.     

In project settings go into Midi -> Midi through and select the instrument object you don't want to not allow midi thru on ( creating the feedback loop).  In this case I named the external instrument object Multi-using-Iac - but it can be any name - just so long it is the one associated with the IAC port.  Pick the one without a midi channel ( this will then do it for all midi channels). Once selected.... disable and re-enable the record button button on the iac track and your issue should be resolved. It you are using multiple tracks to the IAC - make sure you have the once selected that you have highlighted as the live track when playing/recording. 

My list is empty, see picture. What must I do to make my instruments visible?

[volovicg]

You are using an external instrument plugin on an SI track instead of an external midi track. The midi thru disable option only works on external midi track and you are not using one. So now you have me confused - if you are only trying to capture midi data why are you using the external midi plugin ?   Just remove the external plugin and see if that solves it.

[Raoulsplace]

45 minutes ago, volovicg said:

You are using an external instrument plugin on an SI track instead of an external midi track. The midi thru disable option only works on external midi track and you are not using one. So now you have me confused - if you are only trying to capture midi data why are you using the external midi plugin ?   Just remove the external plugin and see if that solves it.

I misunderstood!! To be honest I can't wrap my head around it.

I tried again, I clicked the + sign and created an external midi without the external midi plugin. I renamed the External Midi Track.
I have set the 'Midi in' port in Inspector to my IAC Bus Driver 1.
I went to Project Settings > Midi and the "instrument without midi thru function' list only shows  a list of 'No Output'. I can't see the external midi track which I have renamed.
 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Raoulsplace
extra info

[volovicg]

Go back to your first project with the external midi plugin and just remove the plugin. Then test it. One rabbit hole at a time please 🙂

 I might download Chordpolypad tonight as well.

 

[Raoulsplace]

25 minutes ago, volovicg said:

Go back to your first project with the external midi plugin and just remove the plugin. Then test it. One rabbit hole at a time please 🙂

 I might download Chordpolypad tonight as well.

 

I tested and it did not work the way I want it to work, I still cannot capture whole Midi Chords but only the single notes that belong to each ChordPpolyPad pad. A chords in ChordPolyPad is heard by playing 1 note on the midi keyboard and as a result that 1 single note (in stead of a whole chord) is recorded as Midi. I want the whole chord, not just 1 single note. 

MidiFxFreeze or the Midi Fx dropdown 'Record MIDI to track here' also capture just 1 single midi note in stead of the whole chord. 

CCP= ChordPpolyPad
If I first insert CPP and Chord Trigger afterwards on the same channel strip I can learn the Chords from CPP in Chord Trigger. It takes a while to manually do this and this is certainly not the workflow I wanna use.

There may be more ways to do it, but the only way it (capturing the whole midi chord in stead of 1 note) worked for me was to:

- Create 2 tracks, 1 track with a Logic stock Piano and 1 track with an External Instrument Plugin (Iac bus 1 set to midi destination)
- On the track with the External Instrument I inserted a Midi Fx > CPP.
- With the External Instrument track selected, and the Stock Piano track record enabled, I play some pads in CPP with my midi keyboard.
- The chord gets recorded! But in a feedback loop with sometimes many additional notes, sometimes not.

I hope I can make it work without any feedback loop. I just do not know how.

 

[JakobP]

10 minutes ago, Raoulsplace said:

- With the External Instrument track selected, and the Stock Piano track record enabled, I play some pads in CPP with my midi keyboard.

The trick is to never have the external track selected (or record armed), or else you get the feedback loop. For playing it live, you could in the environment connect your midi keyboard directly to the external midi channel strip, then simply hide the external track to avoid accidental selection/record arming...

Edited March 20, 2023 by JakobP

[volovicg]

6 minutes ago, JakobP said:

The trick is to never have the external track selected (or record armed), or else you get the feedback loop. For playing it live, you could in the environment connect your midi keyboard directly to the external midi channel strip, then simply hide the external track to avoid accidental selection/record arming...

Sure, but that is also what the midi thru option in the project menu is supposed to address - so you can in fact have that track selected. By default it is set to no output... which means you can create another track assigned to the no output object and it will not pass midi thru.  

Here are some videos I did a while back on exactly what you indicated JakobP 

Two links below ( option #2 and option #3) for disabling midi thru

 

https://youtu.be/pkgKezQ3Q6A

 

 

 

[JakobP]

Yes, I agree that's the "correct" way to do it 🙂 My post was more of a quick fix to what the OP already set up with the external instrument plugin. (Didn't know what the midi thru option was doing, so thanks for that 😄 ) 

[Raoulsplace]

34 minutes ago, volovicg said:

Sure, but that is also what the midi thru option in the project menu is supposed to address - so you can in fact have that track selected. By default it is set to no output... which means you can create another track assigned to the no output object and it will not pass midi thru.  

Here are some videos I did a while back on exactly what you indicated JakobP 

Two links below ( option #2 and option #3) for disabling midi thru

https://youtu.be/pkgKezQ3Q6A

Thanks for the videos, I can’t watch option no #3 video because the video is set to private. At least, that is what my ipad displays.

[Raoulsplace]

I wanted to give you all an update. I could not get it to work the way I wanted it to be. It's too technical.
I had Chordpolypad for a long time on my iPad and I am very glad the dev. made a mac version.
Chordpolypad also comes with a standalone app on the mac. When I open the standalone I can choose the IAC output and when I record it into logic it captures the chords.
I can also choose > Chordpolypad Midi Out and the app will connect to Logic automatically.

So I can capture the chords now, with a workaround and Not 100% inside Logic Pro X. I have to switch programs CCP <> LPX back and forth.

When it comes to routing, environment etc I am quite a n00b. It works! Not ideally the best solution but it is what it is.

[volovicg]

4 hours ago, Raoulsplace said:

Thanks for the videos, I can’t watch option no #3 video because the video is set to private. At least, that is what my ipad displays.

Ok it should be set to unlisted now..... let me know if you still can't watch it.

3 hours ago, Raoulsplace said:

I wanted to give you all an update. I could not get it to work the way I wanted it to be. It's too technical.
I had Chordpolypad for a long time on my iPad and I am very glad the dev. made a mac version.
Chordpolypad also comes with a standalone app on the mac. When I open the standalone I can choose the IAC output and when I record it into logic it captures the chords.
I can also choose > Chordpolypad Midi Out and the app will connect to Logic automatically.

So I can capture the chords now, with a workaround and Not 100% inside Logic Pro X. I have to switch programs CCP <> LPX back and forth.

When it comes to routing, environment etc I am quite a n00b. It works! Not ideally the best solution but it is what it is.

OK so since you marked it as solved - no need for me to download it - correct ?

[David Nahmani]

5 hours ago, volovicg said:

Ok it should be set to unlisted now..... let me know if you still can't watch it.

I still can't watch it here, it says "Video unavailable - This video is private".

[Raoulsplace]

5 hours ago, volovicg said:

Ok it should be set to unlisted now..... let me know if you still can't watch it.

OK so since you marked it as solved - no need for me to download it - correct ?

It works perfect now. I do not even have to insert Chordpolypad MidiFx. Just having the standalone app open is enough. Works great with a midi keyboard. On the way when I do not have access to the Keyboard I can use the MidiFx plugin and re-record it with the standalone app at home; or bring my little midi keyboard with me.

I do not really need the 3rd option now but I like to know how to disable midi thru with the 3rd option so I can learn and give it a try.

Thanks for helping out. Also to David and JakobP

[volovicg]

You know I sometimes I go back and I see things I did in the past and I go wow! I did that and then I do things today and can't even press the save button after I make changes!!!!!  

Option #3 youtube video is now set to unlisted so it should play if you click on the link. Please confirm - then shoot me!

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by volovicg

[Raoulsplace]

8 hours ago, volovicg said:

You know I sometimes I go back and I see things I did in the past and I go wow! I did that and then I do things today and can't even press the save button after I make changes!!!!!  

Option #3 youtube video is now set to unlisted so it should play if you click on the link. Please confirm - then shoot me!

Thank for the video with option 3. I listened to a couple of track I made several years ago. It was a real nice experience because I did not know exactly what was happening in those tracks because it was so long ago. I was like: did I make this? 
Wish I had this with more tracks. Maybe I should  leave some new tracks on a harddrive for a couple of years and then listen to them.