Logic in crisis on Ventura

[shapiro]

After getting a string of kernel panics I decided to wipe my hard drive and start again.

Now Logic won't start at all. With a spinning beachball every time I have to force quit.

If I start from the Logic icon no splash screen comes up, if I start from an old template the Arrange opens but the beachball appears with a few seconds.

The very first time I tried to load, Logic scanned my plugs and everything seemed to be going to plan

In 20 years of using Logic I've never had this and I'm completely stuck here, out of ideas.

I tried dumping the prefs files, no difference.

 

 

 

[scg]

I have no particular insight here, but just out of curiosity, have you tried temporarily removing all your third-party plugins and trying to launch Logic again? I know you said Logic scanned successfully the first time and that you made it to the arrange window on at least one occasion, but it might still be a useful data point to have. (I haven't encountered this particular issue or tried any of the things I'm mentioning - just trying to come up with ideas.)

I'll also mention that in the last few weeks, Logic has started freezing for me ('application not responding') after waking up the computer. This is different from your case because you're not able to launch Logic at all, so maybe it's completely unrelated, but it is a new behavior that I didn't observe until fairly recently.

[David Nahmani]

I would try to create a new user account on your Mac and see if you can open Logic on that account? 

[shapiro]

I took out my Waves plugins, dumped the aucache and so far all is back to good.

Any more nonsense and I'll try David's routine with a new User acc.

Next hurdle will be reinstalling the Waves.

Thanks both

[MikeRobinson]

It generally seems to me that Logic has some weaknesses when something happens "at startup."  For instance, I once routinely tried to install some new sounds – from the supplied library! – and Logic "crashed hard" with what the operating system(!) reported as an "unhandled exception."  Of course I am enough of a computer programmer to know that "you 'try' to never let an 'exception' escape without being 'catched' somewhere." (Geeky nerd-joke reference to the programming-language statement.) But this still seems to be a problem.

Likewise, when you have scanned for plugins and you are trying to initialize them, "you 'catch' anything that might go wrong," disable the errant plugin, move along, and then finally report the problem in an intelligent way to the user.  Maybe you permanently disable the plugin so that the next restart will not try again. While the possibility exists that the plugin might have damaged something irreversibly in this session, "at least, at this point, you are still alive enough to tell him what went wrong." There still seem to be "needs improvement" weaknesses in these areas of the Logic system.

I'm still holding back from Ventura because it appears to be a "problematic" release for many applications. (And I am "geek" enough to expect this.) Would like to know when this community considers it to be "safe."

Edited March 20, 2023 by MikeRobinson

[des99]

18 minutes ago, MikeRobinson said:

There still seem to be "needs improvement" weaknesses in these areas of the Logic system.

This is one reason why plugins now run in separate processes, because once plugin code is running, there is nothing Logic can do to influence that third-party code, and if that plugin crashes the app (Logic) hard - there is no longer an app running to "catch" any errors.

This way, if a plugin crashes, it crashes it's own process, and doesn't crash Logic, so it can recover from these problems (you'll see an alert box to the effect of "A plugin has reported a problem - try to restart?" or similar).

AU scans are similarly performed in separate processes, for the same reasons.

[shapiro]

I finally got it going again by taking out two more plugs which LP AU VAL reported as failed validation. One of these was Wurli 2 from Arturia, the other was a thing called Wedge Force Matcha which inexplicably downloaded from Plugin Alliance with my stuff. Don't own it, never bought it, but there it was failing to load and crashing Logic.

Getting rid of this was a job and a half, in the end I had to kill a deeply-hidden playlist in Prefs and that nailed it.

The discussion above between des99 and Mike goes over the top of my head sadly. Des99 seems to feel the changes are justifiable, hope you're right.

All I can offer is that Logic is massively sensitive to plugin stability now, I've never had these kind of issues in 20 years. It makes setting up a DAW nightmarish and if this carries on - much as I love Logic - I may think of trying another platform.

I have a load more plugs to install and I'm not looking forward to more similar problems

[shapiro]

Hopeless, thought I had a fix but back to the same limbo, ^$£@$%&** beachballs everywhere and no sign of the sun.

Trashed Logic and redownloaded, but now it won't even allow me to choose a template of its own making.

Apple have ruined Logic, Ventura is a £$@$%*(&$ disaster

[shapiro]

Tried running Logic from another account as David suggested. 

This time it failed Kontakt 7 which it passed in my normal account!

Then it hung, didn't even get near offering a Template.

It's so temperamental, why pass a plug and then 5 minutes later fail it?

Logic has become neurotic (like me)

[des99]

42 minutes ago, shapiro said:

Wedge Force Matcha which inexplicably downloaded from Plugin Alliance with my stuff.

This is a Plugin Alliance plugin, and these currently have well known crashing problems on Ventura, with no known timeline for updates at this time. If you have other PA plugins, I'd suggest uninstalling those too.

42 minutes ago, shapiro said:

Apple have ruined Logic, Ventura is a £$@$%*(&$ disaster

Your experience isn't everyone's experience - there are lots of people here running Logic on Ventura, without any particular issues.

You've got something unstable on your system, whether that's plugins, or other things, or whatever it was that was causing kernel panics (which is very concerning, as user-space apps cannot kernel panic Macs), and it's those things you likely need to get to the bottom of.

Edited March 20, 2023 by des99

[fisherking]

1 hour ago, shapiro said:

Hopeless, thought I had a fix but back to the same limbo, ^$£@$%&** beachballs everywhere and no sign of the sun.

Trashed Logic and redownloaded, but now it won't even allow me to choose a template of its own making.

Apple have ruined Logic, Ventura is a £$@$%*(&$ disaster

i've been running logic on ventura since the first public betas, first on an intel imac, and now on a new silicon mini, will little or no issue. not sure what's happening for you, but make sure all your plugins are up-to-date, and yeah, plugin alliance IS an issue (am happy not to have any of those plugins). my wave plugins are fine.

good luck. & call apple if you need to!

[shapiro]

1 hour ago, des99 said:

You've got something unstable on your system, whether that's plugins, or other things, or whatever it was that was causing kernel panics (which is very concerning, as user-space apps cannot kernel panic Macs), and it's those things you likely need to get to the bottom of.

Thanks for the alert on PA plugs, I have a lotta these unfortunately.

The trouble started when Spectrasonics put an app called TeamViewer on my system, I had an issue with Omnisphere not finding the Steam folder. They sorted that problem but that night I had the first-ever kernel panic on this system. TeamViewer is impossible to uninstall. More kernel panics followed.

Could something like that survive completely wiping the disk? This was a fresh install on Sunday.

I think I'm going back to Monterey, it's my last hope.

 

53 minutes ago, fisherking said:

make sure all your plugins are up-to-date, and yeah, plugin alliance IS an issue (am happy not to have any of those plugins). my wave plugins are fine.

All up-to-date here but still unprecedented hassle. Thanks for the good words. 

[des99]

1 hour ago, shapiro said:

The trouble started when Spectrasonics put an app called TeamViewer on my system, I had an issue with Omnisphere not finding the Steam folder. They sorted that problem but that night I had the first-ever kernel panic on this system. TeamViewer is impossible to uninstall. More kernel panics followed.

Here's how to uninstall TeamViewer:

https://community.teamviewer.com/English/kb/articles/4165-uninstall-teamviewer-on-macos

1 hour ago, shapiro said:

Thanks for the alert on PA plugs, I have a lotta these unfortunately.

You'll need to uninstall them, or revert to Monterey to use these. This is probably the main reason I haven't moved to Ventura yet, I have and use quite a few of these.

1 hour ago, shapiro said:

Could something like that survive completely wiping the disk? This was a fresh install on Sunday.

If you've reinstalled macOS from scratch, it's unlikely, but if you've preserved your user account data, it's possible that the app stores a bunch of configuration and other data in your user account. I'm not familiar enough with it.

Likely you don't have massive problems, you have a few different problems which together are making your system seem broken and out of control. You need to take care of each problem bit by bit and then your system will stabilise. I understand it's a pain, but you'll get there, I'm sure.

Edited March 20, 2023 by des99

[Greg C]

6 hours ago, shapiro said:

beachballs everywhere and no sign of the sun.

Wow. If there ever was a one sentence tragic novel written for Logic users, this would be it. 

I will remember these poetic words. 

[gkletch]

Quote

beachballs everywhere and no sign of the sun.

Quote

Wow. If there ever was a one sentence tragic novel written for Logic users, this would be it. 

I will remember these poetic words. 

Might be the opening line for the end of summer banger 🙃

[Greg C]

14 hours ago, gkletch said:

Might be the opening line for the end of summer banger 🙃

I dare you my friend

[fisherking]

i just got a copyright on that phrase, but please... use it in a song. then message me for my payout info (i think 50% seems fair, since it's the defining phrase, and already popular; at least, on this thread...)

[shapiro]

23 hours ago, Greg C said:

Wow. If there ever was a one sentence tragic novel written for Logic users, this would be it. 

I will remember these poetic words. 

Good to hear you say that coz my primary thing is poetry not music tho I often wish it was the other way round, but having said that music to me is first and foremost a vehicle for meaning, the song frees the words from the prison of the page, my ideal songwriter would be a blend of Dylan and Metheny.

So I look forward to hearing this song that's apparently being born from a throwaway phrase. (Isn't that where a lot of good songs start?)

Re all the above angst & public weeping I know Apple will sort out anything that needs to be sorted with Ventura, they always deliver in the end, but I won't be updating any time soon. A clean install is now running faultlessly in Monterey I'm happy to say.

My site for anyone interested. (Hope I'm allowed to post this here?)

https://aidanandrewdun.com

[shapiro]

The Studio Ultra is now in service awaiting diagnosis, a week or more of working with Apple techs and Logic specialists failed to resolve the issues, there has to be a motherboard/ RAM problem going on with this machine.

On 3/20/2023 at 5:45 PM, des99 said:

Here's how to uninstall TeamViewer:

https://community.teamviewer.com/English/kb/articles/4165-uninstall-teamviewer-on-macos

In reply to des99 who kindly offered this link to uninstall TV, in fact I'd already tried that but after the uninstall a search for TeamViewer brought up heaps of files left on the system, I will NEVER EVER install TeamViewer on any Mac again. 

[fisherking]

teamviewer should have no effect on logic! they're two completely independent apps. i've had teamviewer on my work mac since forever and have never had any sort-of issue (i use it regularly with a collab who's elsewhere). 

anyway, good luck with this 👍

[gwin_7]

I have had a LOT of issues since updating to Ventura and I have regrets. It's quite annoying how much it crashes and how I can't use some of my go to plugins anymore. Hopefully we get updates soon for both Logic and 3rd parties.