dchaiku Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 Hi there. I was checking for any phasing issues with a completed track and discovered that one soft synth sends the correlation meter on the stereo out to the left of zero. When I listen to just the isolated soft synth in mono, I don't hear any cancellation. Do I need to be concerned? Is ANY sway past zero on the meter truly problematic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 4 hours ago, dchaiku said: Is ANY sway past zero on the meter truly problematic? Not necessarily. The more the left and right signals are correlated, the closer to a mono signal your stereo signal is, meaning that because left and right signals are very similar this results in a very narrow stereo image. The least the left and right signals are correlated, the the closer to an out of phase signal your stereo signal is, meaning that because left and right signals are almost opposites this results in a very wide stereo image. In between those two extremes, you have a wide range of stereo image width. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchaiku Posted March 23, 2023 Author Share Posted March 23, 2023 Thanks David. I want to be certain I am comprehending properly here. Like most all mixes today, I spread instruments out in the stereo field quite a lot. Yet the signal on my Correlation Meter is almost entirely right of zero. Which I believe is a good thing. But I am not comprehending how a wide stereo field yields a close RL correlation. Maybe I'm getting in too deep here and should run along and be happy my mix is ok and stop thirsting for knowledge? 🙂 Damn rabbit holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution David Nahmani Posted March 23, 2023 Solution Share Posted March 23, 2023 1 minute ago, dchaiku said: Yet the signal on my Correlation Meter is almost entirely right of zero. Which I believe is a good thing. But I am not comprehending how a wide stereo field yields a close RL correlation. Right of zero is not necessarily a close correlation. Close to +1 is a close correlation. It's a matter of balance. The stronger the correlation, the narrower the stereo image. Do you want a strong correlation, strong mono compatibility, to the detriment of the stereo image width (close to +1)? Or do you want a wider than life stereo image to the detriment of the correlation and mono compatibility (close to -1)? Or do you want to to be somewhere in the middle (close to 0)? Another way to look at this is to imagine your speaker membranes pushing and pulling. If you have a mono mix (+1) then both left and right membranes push and pull together in perfect sync. As you widen the stereo image, the membranes start doing different things, their movement is less correlated. If you start having components being out of phase (which can sound wider than the actual classic stereo field limited by the distance between the left and right speakers) then you start having the left and right membranes having movements that are close to being opposite, up to the point where (-1) when the left membrane pushes the right one pulls, and they are perfectly inverted in polarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Hannes Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 Put a gain plugin on your output, set it on mono and leave it always bypassed. If you're finished and satisfied with your work, then activate it, and listen through your song in mono. It might sound very good, sometimes it sucks. Then you might want to re-mix that area. That means: you dive in each track and check with your ears (and with correlation meter). Next, Direction Mixer is your friend. Alternative: pay a mixing engineer, they know by experience what is possible or not. E.g. stereo bass which sounds wide bride and yet fine in mono. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 10 minutes ago, Sir Hannes said: listen through your song in mono. It might sound very good, sometimes it sucks. Then you might want to re-mix that area. Or not. Depends what your goal is. Every mix or every section of a mix doesn't have to be mono compatible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Hannes Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 Well, if it sucks and you like that it sucks, you do not have to re-mix it for sure. 😉 There is no need until you dislike it, no? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 7 minutes ago, Sir Hannes said: Well, if it sucks and you like that it sucks, you do not have to re-mix it for sure. 😉 There is no need until you dislike it, no? Sorry, I just re-read the sentence I had quoted in my previous post... now it makes sense. 🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchaiku Posted March 25, 2023 Author Share Posted March 25, 2023 Thanks very much for the replies! Your explanation makes great sense, David! And Sir Hannes - I always listen to my mixes as I near the end in mono (Avantone speaker) to make sure they still sound good. I'm usually quite happy with them, though I'm one of those who likes to start mixing in mono and then eventually move to stereo. I like to know that nothing is competing too much in mono, then I feel free to move to stereo. But I digress. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 Great. You're welcome! 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Hannes Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, dchaiku said: Thanks very much for the replies! Your explanation makes great sense, David! And Sir Hannes - I always listen to my mixes as I near the end in mono (Avantone speaker) to make sure they still sound good. I'm usually quite happy with them, though I'm one of those who likes to start mixing in mono and then eventually move to stereo. I like to know that nothing is competing too much in mono, then I feel free to move to stereo. But I digress. You're welcome. Glad to hear, that you already start in mono and build up on that. Smart! Actually, this mono compatibility is still my inner construction side I must admit. Think, this is due to I am composer, producer and kind of a mixer (at least I studied this). For me, feelings are much more important while writing a track then mono compatibility. BUT when I am done and happy and I hit this mono-button, it's like hell comes over me 😄 This year I think I will try to delegate all mixing issues to a dedicated engineer. Edited March 25, 2023 by Sir Hannes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchaiku Posted March 28, 2023 Author Share Posted March 28, 2023 HA! I totally get that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 To me, the image of my speaker membranes pushing and pulling in sync or out of sync really helps me determine what I'm going for. Anything that needs to move some air and be punchy and solid and loud, needs to be close to mono. Both membranes pushing air toward the listener at the same time. Anything that needs to feel eerie or out of this world or weird, uneasy, uncomfortable, unbalanced or make the listener queasy would be the opposite, almost phase inverted, one membrane pushes air while the other pulls. That's for the extremes at least. Anything else is somewhere in the middle, but it helps having a sense of what effect the extremes produce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Hannes Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 A lead guitar, a pop-solo-piano, an edm-riff-synth isn't something, you would place into mono, right? But these instrument in the refrain would need that wide stereo image plus that punch (going down to let's say 120Hz). Anyway I like your description, David, that's another wording approach I find very interesting. 🙂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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