Score editor - how to add a note not showing up

[Helinka]

Hi folks,
my midi editor shows what I played in: two 4-note chords, both with a C natural and a C sharp.
However in my score editor, only the second chord indicates that both the C sharp and C natural. The first chord only indicates a C sharp. I've tried dragging in a separate note from part box and going into note attributes (independent.. and/or accidentals) but in each case, the new C natural that I drag in is altered to a sixteenth note - which in turn alters the rest of the rhythmic info in the score (extra rests etc).
Any ideas how to rectify this please?
Thanks.
PS., is there a dedicated area for the score editor here on the site? 

       

[Plowman]

Quote

only the second chord indicates that both the C sharp and C natural.

Not quite. The second chord indicates the cancelling of the previous C sharp in the first chord, then reimposes a new C# in the second chord. To a reading musician, neither printed chord shows the C natural. 

(Logic is actually showing both notes, but that's academic. One is covering the other.)

According to notation standards, to reveal the minor second the C natural would be written as a B sharp, or the C# would be written as a D flat. 

Search Key Commands, and locate the following two commands: "Enharmonic shift: #" and "Enharmonic Shift: b." Assign these to computer keys (the latter may default to Shift b -- I can't remember.)

Decide how you want to spell the chord. Select the note to be changed and run the appropriate command. To select the correct note, it may be easier to click on it in Piano Roll, then go to the Score window and run the command. If you need more help, just ask. 

There is no separate forum for scoring. volovicg (the score moderator, among other skills) is very good about reading score questions here. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Plowman
clarification

[Helinka]

Hi Plowman, 
Thank you so much for your detailed explanation and pointing out the notation conventions.
I've not used the key commands editor before, so I tried a few times, but kept getting a weird positioning window popping up (see below) that didn't make sense to me. I found the 'enharmonic shift' in the local "note attributes" menu. Although I couldn't manage a B# and D# (multiple double sharp signs evolved), I did manage to change the C# to a Db so am satisfied it's readable. I learnt alot just now and I really appreciate your help.  
Thanks

 

[Plowman]

Glad to help. 

Hmm.  Somehow you're triggering a "Go to Position" command, which defaults to "/".

Yes, you can access enharmonic settings per note in the Note Attribute window. Those are two ways (menu or key command) of executing the same function.

If you're willing to try again, go to the key command window and find (and select) "enharmonic shift: #." Click on "Learn Key Label" and press shift 3. (that's the sharp symbol... since co-opted by "hashtag.")  De-select "Learn by Key Label." 

Now whenever a note is selected (and you move or are already in ) Score, pressing "shift 3" should render the note enharmonically higher (not affecting the pitch). Consider: if a note is already showing as C#, pressing shift 3 will render it as C double sharp. (And if you run the "enharmonic shift: b" command, it returns the note to C#. Hit that again, and it becomes D flat.)

Key commands will dramatically improve your Logic experience. But there are times when we are solving other more immediate problems. 

 

[Music Spirit]

21 hours ago, Helinka said:

Hi Plowman, 
Thank you so much for your detailed explanation and pointing out the notation conventions.
I've not used the key commands editor before, so I tried a few times, but kept getting a weird positioning window popping up (see below) that didn't make sense to me. I found the 'enharmonic shift' in the local "note attributes" menu. Although I couldn't manage a B# and D# (multiple double sharp signs evolved), I did manage to change the C# to a Db so am satisfied it's readable. I learnt alot just now and I really appreciate your help.  
Thanks

@Helinka In terms of making this look musically literate, it depends on the key and the harmonic function as to what solutions to choose to represent the notes you want. The first chord looks like an A major triad but with perhaps  the C being a   #9 ( in jazz) terms  - but maybe your musical approach is from a different angle.

In the second example ( ie with and Am triad and  Db) that suggests a completely different harmonic function...

 * * *

I have also had this bug of the 'covered' note - and sometimes attempted with the Layout Tool to:

1/ Select note in Piano Roll

2/ Change enharmonically to sharp of flat so it is visible

3/ Using the Layout Tool, hoping drag the covered notes  slightly to the left or right graphically ( not time wise)  so it is visible and then change it back to it's original with no enharmonic add. 

4/ But this does not seem  to work - all the notes keep getting selected and dragged by the Layout tool ...? 

As you can see on this very short video:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sfvtiglcsmoqvp8/Covered Note Logic.mp4?dl=0

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by Music Spirit

[Helinka]

On 3/24/2023 at 9:09 PM, Plowman said:

Glad to help. 

Hmm.  Somehow you're triggering a "Go to Position" command, which defaults to "/".

Yes, you can access enharmonic settings per note in the Note Attribute window. Those are two ways (menu or key command) of executing the same function.

If you're willing to try again, go to the key command window and find (and select) "enharmonic shift: #." Click on "Learn Key Label" and press shift 3. (that's the sharp symbol... since co-opted by "hashtag.")  De-select "Learn by Key Label." 

Now whenever a note is selected (and you move or are already in ) Score, pressing "shift 3" should render the note enharmonically higher (not affecting the pitch). Consider: if a note is already showing as C#, pressing shift 3 will render it as C double sharp. (And if you run the "enharmonic shift: b" command, it returns the note to C#. Hit that again, and it becomes D flat.)

Key commands will dramatically improve your Logic experience. But there are times when we are solving other more immediate problems. 

 

[Helinka]

Hi plowman, 
Thanks for taking the time to explain the Key Commands things. Very kind of you. I'm only using a few of them and this is encouraging to get with the programme. 
Thanks 
 

[Helinka]

@Music Spirit wow thanks for those steps and the video.  The note covering another hasn't happened to me before so was a bit mystified. Interesting about the layout tool - I've not used it before. Will try it out. 
As for the key, harmonically, the piece is mostly in D Dorian, with a few deviations. 
I do appreciate the time you've taken to answer my query,
thank you.

 

[Plowman]

To my experience, grabbing one note of even the humblest C major with the Layout Tool will shift the whole chord. I don't think it's related to the double flat or any other enharmonic hijinks. 

A work-around: try a score style with two channels, put the note to be offset on channel 2, offset it with the Layout Tool (it should be separable), and then hide the stem with Note Attributes so only the head remains. Properly positioned, it'll look like just another quarter note in the chord of a major or minor second.  

 

[Music Spirit]

Excellent suggestion thanks Plowman - and thanks for clearing up that the Layout Tool cant shift a single note within a chord.

Would be a useful feature request... if anyone at Apple/Logic has the budget to upgrade the Score Editor another step!