Reverse a midi track?

[Antaren]

I'm curious to hear what a melody would sound like if it was played from the last note to the first note, and I'd like to be able to read the reversed track in the Score Window if possible.  Is there any way to achieve this?  Thanks.

[David Nahmani]

1. Select the MIDI region,
2. Choose Window > Open MIDI Transform, 
3. Click the Presets pop-up menu and choose Reverse Position,
4. Adjust the position as needed and click Select and Operate. 

[Antaren]

2 hours ago, David Nahmani said:

1. Select the MIDI region,
2. Choose Window > Open MIDI Transform, 
3. Click the Presets pop-up menu and choose Reverse Position,
4. Adjust the position as needed and click Select and Operate. 

David, I was able to

1. Select the midi region

2. Choose Window -> Open MIDI Transform

3. Click The Presets Pop-up menu and choose Reverse position

Here's where' I got stuck:

4.   I just played 4 quarter notes of varying pitches in just one bar in 4/4 time. I quantized it to 4.  I thought that the first note would show in the event list,  as the position 1-1-1-1.  However, I'm seeing 1 1 1 59.  And the other 3 notes are off a little too.  This is happening with the length of the notes too.  They are not exact.  This seems crucial when I use the Reverse Position function, because then the timing is off, because notes did not start exactly on the downbeat and the length is not exact.  Therefore, when I reverse position, the timing is off and notes run into each other.  How do I avoid this?

I may not be able to get back on Logic until tomorrow, but I may.  Thanks.

[David Nahmani]

If you can, Attach the project here with your example of the 4 quarter notes so that I can experiment with it and find the best workflow. 

[Antaren]

Hi David--Hope you can open this.  I am still using Logic 10.4.8  with Mac OS 10.15.7

I was going to update both, but life happened.  Hopefully, soon.

Thanks.

reverse midi test.zip

[volovicg]

another option would be to use time handles........

 

[David Nahmani]

On 4/1/2023 at 5:05 PM, Antaren said:

Therefore, when I reverse position, the timing is off and notes run into each other.  How do I avoid this?

Ok, so now with your example I believe that I understand what you mean. 

Maybe you'd want to first quantize the notes and then make sure they all have the same length, then reverse their position? Or did you intend to keep the time offset as they are but just reverse the positions ?

[Antaren]

Thanks David, this is just to try the process out.  I actually eventually would like to do this with a whole song, that would include 8th notes, quarter notes, etc.  So making sure all notes have the same length wouldn't work.  I thought there might be a way to see it in the Score Window.  I might just have to do this by hand, writing out the whole song starting with the last note.  That of course, would be time-consuming too.   It was just an idea.  I was curious.  

Thanks, Volovicg...I see what you're doing, but it won't solve the issue of an actual song with notes of different durations, and then looking good in the score window.  Maybe there isn't a simple way to achieve this.  I may just  need to do this with paper and pencil (how retro!)

[David Nahmani]

1 minute ago, Antaren said:

Maybe there isn't a simple way to achieve this.

I'm afraid there isn't, at least not that I can think of. 

1 minute ago, Antaren said:

I may just  need to do this with paper and pencil (how retro!)

Well, at least it still works, and will probably always work! 😄 

[Antaren]

Quote

Well, at least it still works, and will probably always work

Unless my pencil point breaks!😄

[volovicg]

Oh I was totally confused. You are referring to a pure retrograde.  If you want to do that in the score - just first use the score quantize - fix display note position and duration.  Then apply the midi transform function reverse across those selected notes you want retrograde. Below I did twinkle twinkle little start. I played it in, applied the fixed display quantization and utilized the reverse transform. 

See if I understood now... 🙂  and no pencil required.

 

Edited April 6 by volovicg

[Antaren]

This looks interesting, Volovicg.  I'll check it out over the weekend. Maybe I won't be needing to sharpen my pencil. 😀 Thanks.

Edited April 7 by Antaren

[Dox]

Volovicg,

Why does your method work so well on Logic stock loops "Andean Stroll Pan Pipe 01" and "Argentine Tango Piano 04" but not on "12 String Dream 05"?

Edited April 7 by Dox

[volovicg]

hmm seems to work here - are you sure you don't have the score display features ( interpretation, overlap etc) set to mask the retrograde on the reverse transform region as compared to the source ?

 

[Dox]

Where do I find the "score display features ( interpretation, overlap etc)"?

Do you mean the checkboxes in the Region Inspector?

If so I have tried the to Reverse with them checked and unchecked. The result is the same.

Edited April 9 by Dox

[Dox]

Here is the before and after of Reverse:

 

And After:

 

[Antaren]

Thanks Volovicg.  That did it.   Success!!! The visual really helped.  😀

 

[Antaren]

Dox, I had the same issue that you are having...the notes disappeared. My mistake was,  I entered the number of bars incorrectly in the "midi Reverse function" window.  My test was only 1 measure in length, but I had the position set to measures 1-5.  When I set the position to measures 1 -2, it worked fine, the notes were reversed and all the notes were there.  I see that your example is only 2 measures, yet you have the end position set to 5.  Try setting the end position to 3 1 1 1 and see if it solves your issue.  I hope this solution works for you too.  

Edited April 9 by Antaren

[Antaren]

I didn't mark  Volovicg's post that was the solution for me as the solution, (He Posted on Wednesday at 10:58 PM) because I didn't know if it might mess up Dox looking at what I had posted.

[Dox]

16 minutes ago, Antaren said:

Dox, I had the same issue that you are having...the notes disappeared. My mistake was,  I entered the number of bars incorrectly in the "midi Reverse function" window.  My test was only 1 measure in length, but I had the position set to measures 1-5.  When I set the position to measures 1 -2, it worked fine, the notes were reversed and all the notes were there.  I see that your example is only 2 measures, yet you have the end position set to 5.  Try setting the end position to 3 1 1 1 and see if it solves your issue.  I hope this solution works for you too.  

Thanks very much Antaren. I didn't understand Volovicg's reply - too sophisticated for me I'm afraid. But I did what you said and it works perfectly.

[Antaren]

Glad you got it working, Dox.

[Dox]

Thanks Antaren. I clearly need to reread the manual on MIDI Transform and practise using it a bit more!🙂

[Antaren]

Me too!