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Glitch related to Stack outputs?


gunbrenner

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Hi! I encountered this glitch/weird behavior several times: 

When I delete the output track of a stack (used to group virtual instruments) it still appears in the Mixer Window. The real problem occurs when I delete it from the mixer window: It suddenly makes other tracks as "No Output" and makes them grey/erases channel strip contents which is very hard to notice right away in big sessions. 

I'm attaching 3 screenshots: 

Screenshot 1: Solo Strings VSL (Unused Stack Output track)

Screenshot 2: After deleting it it is "moved" towards the end of the Mixer Window, still with it's FX plugins. 

Screenshot 3: After deleting it from the Mixer Window suddenly those two tracks have "No Output" and their channel strip completely gone.

 

For some reason they seem to "link" after deleting it from the main window. Tried reseting the deleted channel strip and it also resets the ones on the main view.

I know logic always had this weird behavior between Main Window and Mixer but is this a known issue or is there a fix? It's really annoying to have all those unused outputs in the Mixer and the potential risk of deleting channel strips that have nothing to do with it.

Thanks for any help!

 

 

My system is:

macOS Monterrey 12.5.1

Mac Mini M1 2020

Logic Pro X 10.7.8 (Rosetta, don't use native mode as much because of ARA and plugins GUI sees to take a bit to load)

 

Screen 1.png

Screen 2.png

Screen 3.png

Edited by gunbrenner
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18 minutes ago, polanoid said:

They are not shown in Screenshot 1. What channel strip were those tracks assigned to?

You mean the In/Outs?

The "Solo Strings VSL" input is Bus 30 and was the output aux track of several instrument tracks (loaded from a user patch I made for a string section). Output is Bus 9 (just for mixing purposes).

The tracks that later were shown as having "no output" were independent single instrument tracks. Their Output is Bus 9 as well but so it is for several other tracks that were unaffected.  

I had this issue when deleting User Patches from the mixer that are track stacks where an Aux is the output of several instrument tracks. I guess for some reason Logic think those unrelated instrument tracks were part of the stack before or something like that despite never been part of it.

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Just now, gunbrenner said:

You mean the In/Outs?

No. I mean Channel Strips, just like I wrote. Every track is assigned to exactly one channel strip, it would have been interesting to see what channel strip those tracks were assigned to in the situation in screenshot 1.

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3 minutes ago, polanoid said:

No. I mean Channel Strips, just like I wrote. Every track is assigned to exactly one channel strip, it would have been interesting to see what channel strip those tracks were assigned to in the situation in screenshot 1.

Ahhh I think this? Everything seems to be assigned to its own channel strip.

 

 

Screen Shot 2023-06-13 at 3.37.02 PM.png

Screen Shot 2023-06-13 at 3.36.43 PM.png

Screen Shot 2023-06-13 at 3.36.11 PM.png

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4 minutes ago, polanoid said:

So maybe you accidentally deleted Bell Tree (Inst 37) and Santoor Trem (Inst 34) as well? Were they still in the Mixer in the "Screenshot 3 situation"?

They are also deleted from the Mixer but were unselected while doing so, I even just tried having a different track selected while deleting the Aux and it had the same result: Inst 37 and 34 were deleted from the mixer and appeared as No Output in the main window. 

Not sure what is linking Inst 37 and 34 to Aux 30 

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40 minutes ago, polanoid said:

Can you strip down your project so that it only contains these three tracks, no MIDI and audio content, and see if you still have that issue? In that case, post it here so others can have a look at it.

Tried deleting everything but the file is still too big to upload (50mb).

So I went and created a copy of the session and left just those 3 tracks (Inst 34, 37 and Aux 30) + another Aux (29) that had the same behavior: once I tried deleting it from the Mixer it also deleted Inst 34, 37 AND Aux 30.

Now I also get the "The selected Auxiliary channel (or channels) receive signal from an active Bus routing. Are you sure you want to delete them?" message when I try to delete any of the Aux channels but there are no Bus routing going on at all.

Also Aux 29 only appears when ALL is selected in the mixer and there is no way to make it appear in the Main Window.

All track have no regions and had their channel strips reseted. 

I'm trying ot see if there is any clue in the environment window but I don't really know my way around it 🫠

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9 hours ago, polanoid said:

even when you zip it?

Finally made it less than 2mb! Aux 29 now appears in the main view, it was hidden so my bad there. 

If you delete Aux 30 then both Inst tracks get No Output, when deleting Aux 29 then both Inst + Aux 30 get the No Output. 

I think logic keeps having them routed/linked behind the scenes? Sometimes Logic names Aux Outputs with the name of previously deleted (and therefore now available) Aux Tracks. Also is kinda annoying than deleting them from the main window just put them in the mixer.

The problem of this is that when working big sessions those deleted Aux Tracks sometimes mess with individual tracks and "deletes" their channel strips, if it gets unnoticed then I have to backtrack a bit 😕 It happened with other sessions before and maaaaaybe have something to do with saved user patches that contains track stacks?

Most likely is something super obvious that I'm just not getting 🙃

Anyway thanks for the help!

 

 

Logic Aux Glitch.zip

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14 hours ago, gunbrenner said:

Finally made it less than 2mb! Aux 29 now appears in the main view, it was hidden so my bad there. 

If you delete Aux 30 then both Inst tracks get No Output, when deleting Aux 29 then both Inst + Aux 30 get the No Output. 

I think logic keeps having them routed/linked behind the scenes? Sometimes Logic names Aux Outputs with the name of previously deleted (and therefore now available) Aux Tracks. Also is kinda annoying than deleting them from the main window just put them in the mixer.

The problem of this is that when working big sessions those deleted Aux Tracks sometimes mess with individual tracks and "deletes" their channel strips, if it gets unnoticed then I have to backtrack a bit 😕 It happened with other sessions before and maaaaaybe have something to do with saved user patches that contains track stacks?

Most likely is something super obvious that I'm just not getting 🙃

Anyway thanks for the help!

Logic Aux Glitch.zip 679 kB · 0 downloads

Will have a look at it later! Thanks for posting the project 

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OK this is weird... the only explanation that comes to my mind is that the channel strips that are deleted together with Aux 30 or Aux 29 have been part of a summing track stack with exactly that Aux as summing Aux before, and Logic somehow thinks they still are. 

Was that the case before, and did you use "Flatten Track Stack" to un-stack the tracks?

I tried to replicate this in a new project, by either flattening the summing stack or dragging the sub tracks out of the stack, but I did not manage to make the glitch, as you call it, happen.

Do you know a way to make this happen in a project started from scratch?

Edited by polanoid
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On 6/15/2023 at 4:01 PM, polanoid said:

OK this is weird... the only explanation that comes to my mind is that the channel strips that are deleted together with Aux 30 or Aux 29 have been part of a summing track stack with exactly that Aux as summing Aux before, and Logic somehow thinks they still are. 

Was that the case before, and did you use "Flatten Track Stack" to un-stack the tracks?

I tried to replicate this in a new project, by either flattening the summing stack or dragging the sub tracks out of the stack, but I did not manage to make the glitch, as you call it, happen.

Do you know a way to make this happen in a project started from scratch?

I think I forgot to press submit in my previous message so here it is again 🤣

Thanks for the help! I also think those instrument tracks might have been related to the Aux before. I don't use flatten track stack that often, most of the times I drag the tracks out of the stack so maybe that causes it. Also tried reverse engineering it with no luck yet, it tends to happens once I'm deep in a session. Will update if I find a way to make it happen.  

Is there a way to delete Aux tracks from the main window and not having them appear in the Mixer? Or is just Logic being Logic? 

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