MorganThen Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Guys and girls, Any tips on recording perfect vocals for acoustic, or rock tracks? I mean, take a listen to YellowCard or James Blunt or My Chemical Romance. How many layers or what channel settings are crucial to create such vocals. Like even rap music, i notice the demo that came with logic express, The Roots' Demo has like 6 tracks on vocals, each has different settings. What am i suppose to do to get great sounding vocals?? Morgan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicGeek Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 A great mic for starters, a great preamp and a great vocal space to record in . . . and a good singer to boot. No plugins will replace those. From there it's all a matter of compression and EQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddTime Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 lava lamps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjigga3000 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Guys and girls, Any tips on recording perfect vocals for acoustic, or rock tracks? I mean, take a listen to YellowCard or James Blunt or My Chemical Romance. How many layers or what channel settings are crucial to create such vocals. Like even rap music, i notice the demo that came with logic express, The Roots' Demo has like 6 tracks on vocals, each has different settings. What am i suppose to do to get great sounding vocals?? Morgan. Hmmm, a decent mic, and mic pre amp. Also a decent engineer, that knows what they are doing. Then you need to know how to get a good performance out of the singer, or vocalist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yacithane Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 so if all it takes to get good vocals is a good mic, pre, compressing and eqing, why is there always 5 or 6 layers of the same vocalist on, it seems, every professionally made song Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seagate Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Then you need to know how to get a good performance out of the singer, or vocalist. I use a 2x4 for that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yofi Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 I use a 2x4 for that... jeesh your lucky I have to use a 4x4.............sing in tune.......... or your road kill...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L Hall Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 so if all it takes to get good vocals is a good mic, pre, compressing and eqing, why is there always 5 or 6 layers of the same vocalist on, it seems, every professionally made song There's something that happens when you layer the same vocalist several times. All the deficiencies of the singer's voice become less noticable as you stack them, assuming they come close to singing the same way every time. In other words, poor singers sound better when stacked a bunch of times. I know this because I've stacked myself often to mask the fact that I'm a marginal singer tone-wise. There's your answer. There's a lot a major stars out there who can't sing their way out of a paper bag. So, again, get a great singer. And I've found that some singers just sound better on a mic than others. I've done tons of commercial production, and many times I've brought in someone because they blew me away in a live performance, only to find that they sound awful in the studio. Wierd, but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcel72 Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 so if all it takes to get good vocals is a good mic, pre, compressing and eqing, why is there always 5 or 6 layers of the same vocalist on, it seems, every professionally made song I think your concept of 'professionally made' is pretty limited, judging from your examples. There are plenty of singers out there who can still carry a performance with a single vocal. You're talking about a specific genre (MOR pop) that is usually characterized by very smooth, heavily processed vocals, which are achieved in part by double/triple/etc. tracking. What is lost in character is ostensibly made up for in consistency and perceived size. If that's what you're looking for... I would also suggest that, despite what the example vocalists' reputations may be (I don't happen to know, nor do I really care), there is often an element of compensation for poor or inconsistent vocal performance involved in the decision to layer vocals. Along with the decisions to use Vocal Align and AutoTune... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkgross Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 yup. Pretty sure Diana Krall doesn't triple track her lead vox... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdude9k Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Another trick is to use two mics at the same time on one vocal track, i can't remember what the term is but i think its called mid-side micing. I'm pretty sure the beatles did this a lot. http://www.sweetwater.com/expert-center/techtips/d--03/09/2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcel72 Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Mid-side micing is a technique used to make stereo recordings, not commonly used for vocals. The Beatles never, to my knowledge (which, regarding the Beatles is fairly thorough), used multiple mic's to record vocals. In fact, they commonly would track two singers simultaneously thru a single mic, due to the scarcity of tracks in that era. They did use an elaborate system of 'Artificial Double Tracking' using the head gap on 2 tape machines and a VSO controller to time-shift a single vocal subtly. John Lennon hated his voice, apparently, and was always after ways to alter or camouflage it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Paolo Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 There was an article in a sound on sound on the production of Shakira's "Hips don't lie", in which the producer revealed that Shakira's voice was so good that no layering had to be done (used a 15000 dollar Telefunken Elam mic). On Wyclef Jean's voice though he used some layering, not stating if that had been done to mask anything or to reach a certain effect.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganThen Posted November 14, 2007 Author Share Posted November 14, 2007 What do you guys mean by your version of layering? Do you mean, copy and paste? or re-sing it through on another track? By the way, can anyone point me to a link that will go through vocal engineering in Logic pretty thoroughly, so I know putting what settings has a certain reason and all. I just want to know how do i get to what sound i want. Thanks guys. great Help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyMusicGirl Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 copious amounts of white powder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregj Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 What do you guys mean by your version of layering? Do you mean, copy and paste? or re-sing it through on another track? The standard practice, at least in my case is to record verse, or even whole track multiple times, different days, etc. Ie - instruct vocalist to sing few times in different way. I usually use 'create new track with same settings' for that , and just mute unused ones - than create another one, and shuffle stuff around - to get the final version. Another standard practice, but I have no idea what's the name for that - is to have vocalist(s) to sing along the tracks all the yeahs, heyaas, etc, etc - and use those sometimes. As for using multiple mics to record vocalist - it is a standard practice in classical music. Also there, vocalists usually require more space - bigger rooms (no booths) - and you put few mics in, different heights, and different position - to capture more natural abience. Well, that is true for other instruments also, nothing will recreate the natural stereo sound of guitar amplifier with rear-open. Another good example would be how you record classic/acoustic guitars, pianos, etc. No 'space designer' along with stereo spread will give you that sound. Speaking of which. Try using stereo spread, either on reverb bus or on the vocal track it self. Some also use little of 'tape delay' set to to 0ms (no delay) on a bus - just to enrich the sound. For rock vocals also, sometimes I use little (very very little) of pitch shift along with stereo spread on a bus - just to give the sound bit more 'ground'. But, this is to be used with caution. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Paolo Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 there is another nice trick to let the vocalist whisper the lyrics, and mix this track in with the sung version. Can give some nice effects. Ally Girl do you think that is why Mister Jean had to do so many takes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcel72 Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 For pop vocals like the examples above, layering anything with any sort of room sound or ambience is going to be a smear-y mess. The tighter and drier the better... -When choosing an input chain, make sure you are either familiar enough with the performance to ride input gain, or use a compressor and/or limiter before the A/D. If the vocal is very dynamic from part to part (verse to chorus, say), track in sections with different gain settings. -Have the vocalist do a full guide pass. Listen to this, and identify problem areas. Talk about them with the vocalist. -When tracking, try to focus the vocalist's energy on keeping performances tight, in meter, pitch and phrasing. If they're going to go all Whitney Houston, make sure they can do it the same way over and over. -When you think you have reached the peak of the vocalist's output (you will know, their performances will get better and then start to get worse) stop. Sit down and comp together the best take that you can, some people do this word-by-word or even syllable-by-syllable. You have two options here, to make a double (or triples, etc.) from 'original' takes, or have the singer 'sing to themselves'. Don't expect to ever get the same timbre from the singer's voice again (voice can vary hugely from day to day) so make sure you have what you need. Don't be afraid to copy repetitive parts if doing so does not detract from song dynamics. -If possible / necessary, have the singer do a whisper track (like Roger Paolo describes) and whatever harmonies you can get them to pull off. Close harmonies really help the kind of vocals you are describing. -Vocal Align and AutoTune to the extent that you see fit. Do as much as you need, but as little as possible, cos guys like me will hear it when you're done, LOL. -When mixing, try running the vocal (and/or the doubles) thru various chains in parallel. Try different EQ and compression settings to help the different chains achieve the different elements of a good vocal - clarity, body (melody), character. I engineered a record last year where the mixer ended up using 6 (outboard) EQ and compression units on the lead and lead double vocals. This was not due any deficiencies in the original performances or the engineering, it was just the way he polished vocals. They sounded great, BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkgross Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 [quote} Ally Girl do you think that is why Mister Jean had to do so many takes? lolol..gotta do something..sure can't SING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregj Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 the other thing is, that the vocalist him/her self should be able to produce different sounds. For pop-likeish music style, no vibrations, sing more through 'throat' not too deep and opera-like. Properly trained vocalist should do both. Layering makes the 'root' sound much more stable, and all harmonics - that contribute to what we call 'tone' get bit more blurry. still vocalist can do it, make her/him sing more quiet - and 'simple'. I have no idea how to call it. But you can hear sample of going from one type of performance to other in one of my oldish demos (recorded with sm58, no eq, compressor only added in logic). http://scenic.k4lab.com/~gj/ohn-voc.mp3 . Hope that won't scare away neighbors. hth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Paolo Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 check this http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun01/articles/vocalsfaq.asp#Anchor-24512 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaughn_leong Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 The voice really counts for up to 95% of the total quality. TRACKING -------------- Close micing is best. Avoid Plossives Do around 6 takes from start to finish. EDITING ----------- Select the best phrases out of all 6 takes Automate the fader to get an even loudness. (save compression for creating bite - explained later) Isolate all breathing and place it on a separate track. (helpls avoid heavy breathing when using compression later) EQ ---- try diping instead of boosting get a natural yet enhanced tonality. COMPRESSION (AS a groove effect) Optional -------------------------------------------------------- The Urei 1176 is amongst the most famous FET type compressor for vocals. It's used to create "BITE" in the performance. adjust the attack and release (using your ears) to accentuate the transients. Pitch COrrection ----------------------- Ever so slightly. a bit does wonders. Alot can be cool too (4 an effect) Added EFX (to create a little SPACE and groove) --------------- Delay into Reverb Reverb into Delay Just Delay. Harmonies --------------- Be very creative here. Pan Left and RIght. But never directly in the middle. Never cover your lead vocals. EVER! it's doing the simple things well that make you sound pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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