"Automating" Automation to avoid over-compressing/limiting vocals?

[kurtminus]

I'm working with some vocal tracks and I'd like to flatten the volume as much as possible without over-compressing/limiting the signal. I'm using a ribbon mic with a somewhat high noise floor, so when I compress and limit the vocals, I end up with a dirtier more noisy sound. When I get the vocals sounding ral good the volume fluctuates more than I'd like. I understand in an ideal world, instead of using a limiter or compressor to squish the levels I would use automation to adjust the volume so it's the same throughout the entire song, but that is very very tedious.

I am curious if there is a workaround to "automating" automation, or if there is another trick I don't know about!

Thanks 🙂

[Atlas007]

Have you tried compressing according to a predefined frequency band? Side-chaining that frequency band (voice) to actuate the compression…

Edited September 3 by Atlas007

[kurtminus]

1 hour ago, Atlas007 said:

Have you tried compressing according to a predefined frequency band? Side-chaining that frequency band (voice) to actuate the compression…

Haven’t tried that. I haven’t dug into side chaining really don’t know how it works. Wouldn’t that just be another way to compress the vocal? Would it compress the vocal differently? 

[Atlas007]

It would be more precise as a compression method, reacting to a specific frequency band related to the recorded vocal material.

[David Nahmani]

Volume automation is the answer. Try to do it on the fly. If you're familiar with the performance, you'll get good at knowing when to raise or lower the volume. If you're not familiar, then you'll become familiar after a couple of passes attempting to automate the volume. That's how professional engineers do it. 

Here's a trick that can help: 

1. Create a summing track stack for your vocal track. 
2. Insert a Compressor on the main track of the stack. 
3. Adjust the compressor so that you get a consistent level (Platinum model, adjust the threshold and ratio to get the desired results). 
4. Now automate the volume on the vocal track on the fly while watching the Compressor's needle, striving to make the compressor work as little as possible (the needle should stay nearly all the time full right). 

Work in Touch mode, some passes with the compressor on while watching the needle, and some passes with the compressor off while listening. 

[Plastic Meanie]

Since Logic introduced the Gain Tool, it's transformed the way I control levels within a track. So instead of using actual automation I highlight bits of regions with the Marquee Tool, click to split out, then use the Gain Tool to manipulate the level as needed. And if you use Shift F14 you can raise the level by a very accurate 1dB at a time. F15 to reduced it. 

 

[kurtminus]

20 hours ago, Atlas007 said:

It would be more precise as a compression method, reacting to a specific frequency band related to the recorded vocal material.

I learned a bit about sidechaining yesterday and used it to sidechain reverb on my vocal track. Really amazing trick. Could you explain a bit more about how I'd use it for the purpose of controlling the volume level on the vocal?

[Atlas007]

Use a copy of the vocal on a separate track, filter that track to the useful (vocal) frequency bandwidth. Use that filtered track to feed the sidechain. Of course that filtered track doesn’t go to the mix… Fiddling with the freq band could be useful, even automating same may be useful/interesting. One could even compound many sidechain tracks into one feed…

[kurtminus]

4 minutes ago, Atlas007 said:

Use a copy of the vocal on a separate track, filter that track to the useful (vocal) frequency bandwidth. Use that filtered track to feed the sidechain. Of course that filtered track doesn’t go to the mix… Fiddling with the freq band could be useful, even automating same may be useful/interesting. One could even compound many sidechain tracks into one feed…

So I’m this case my real vocal track has a bus going to a compressor that will do the limiting, after that compressor is another compressor that is sidechained to the copy of the vocal track? Is that right? So when the volume goes down on the vocal the sidechained compressor triggers the actual compressor to limit the signal?

[David Nahmani]

12 hours ago, kurtminus said:

So I’m this case my real vocal track has a bus going to a compressor that will do the limiting

Why a bus? I would simply insert the Compressor directly on the vocal track's channel strip. 

Also don't disregard @Plastic Meanie's suggestion, it's an excellent one. You can also look into region normalization methods (Functions > Normalize Region Gain) to get started getting the level of each vocal phrase in the ballpark, reducing the amount of automation or compression work you have to do downstream. 

[Atlas007]

23 hours ago, kurtminus said:

So I’m this case my real vocal track has a bus going to a compressor that will do the limiting, after that compressor is another compressor that is sidechained to the copy of the vocal track? Is that right? So when the volume goes down on the vocal the sidechained compressor triggers the actual compressor to limit the signal?

Not quite.

The reference track (copy of your vocal track, filtered to yield only the useful bandwidth frequency) sent to the compressor‘s side-chain feed already instantiated on your mix vocal track.

[kurtminus]

On 9/3/2023 at 8:39 AM, Atlas007 said:

Have you tried compressing according to a predefined frequency band? Side-chaining that frequency band (voice) to actuate the compression…

Hey! So I didn't quite understand this concept at first. But after experimenting a bit with sidechain compression for vocal reverb and bass/kick it clicked and I understand your suggestion and just tried it out. HOLY s#!+ MIND BLOWN, this is EXACTLY what I've been looking for. Instantly glues a vocal track into a mix and limits amplification of trouble frequencies. YES! Thank you!!!