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Nektar Panorama CS12 - customised control of Logic Pro X


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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Tankfield said:

When I select the next or previous track with the left or right buttons on the CS12, Logic opens the window of the first plugin on the new track. Or if the new track is an instrument rather than an audio track it opens the instrument's window.

If I just want to change track to use the fader or pan I don't want a popup window opening.

Is there a setting to turn this behaviour off?

First thing to try is to press SHIFT+MIXER on CS12.  This closes all plugins and will prevent any CS12 enforced plugin window opening on channel navigation.

You can also use SHIFT+<> buttons on CS12 to navigate arranger tracks and you will likely not get this behaviour.

 

Now, here is an explanation of exactly why this plugin window opening happens:

The CS12 <> buttons are navigating Mixer channels, not arranger tracks.  It does this by banking and selecting the next channel (as there's no global prev/next mixer channel command in Logic).  This means the CS12 is able to select aux/bus channels too plus it's much quicker as you can hold a <> button and scroll through channels using Data/Menu.  

The select operation is the same as pressing a channel SELECT button on any other control surface - which I expect would result in the same behaviour.  I believe it was mentioned earlier in the thread someone had experienced this with an SSL controller at some point which makes sense.

 

When a new channel is selected with a control surface Logic automatically opens the plugin window if there are plugin parameters being scanned.  The problem is this is not exclusive to the control surface on which the SELECT button was pressed. 😡 

Now for the likely source of the problem -  In the case of instruments or the first plugin on an audio track opening I suspect it to be a controller keyboard with a Logic script that either uses a plugin host, or is in instrument control mode. 

In the case of inserts only opening, I suspect a control surface with a plugin host or looking out for specific plugins.  

In these cases the script for that controller is constantly scanning the first instrument/insert parameter, or the instrument name to see if the plugin host is present.  As such, the plugin parameter is always scanned and this results in the plugin window opening on channel change (CS12) or channel select (other control surfaces).

 

In all cases this issue can be addressed in Control Assignments by locating the plugin parameter assignment on the control surface and ticking the 'exclusive' box.  Script writers for these control surfaces can (and should) automatically set the exclusive box for a parameter that is to be constantly scanned by adding 'exclusive=true' to the control item entry in their scripts.  Nektar controller keyboard scripts have been updated accordingly. 

 

Addressing this by removing the .CS file may fix the issue briefly, so long as the plugin parameter that is being scanned is not active on restarting Logic.  So if the controller keyboard was connected, the problem would remain.  To address the issue properly, please send your .CS file into support and we can build up a support article on how to update the controller assignments for different controllers that present this issue.

 

Edited by TChandler
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2 hours ago, TChandler said:

In all cases this issue can be addressed in Control Assignments by locating the plugin parameter assignment on the control surface and ticking the 'exclusive' box.

To address the issue properly, please send your .CS file into support and we can build up a support article on how to update the controller assignments for different controllers that present this issue.

Hi TChandler

Thank you, ticking the 'exclusive' box seems to have worked.

Yes, I will send my .cs file to Nectar support.

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3 minutes ago, trstack said:

Awaiting my CS12 from Sweetwater. Can anyone comment on controlling 3rd party software synth plug-ins?

Omnisphere, Diva, etc..

It's just for controlling audio effects plugins at the moment. I believe Nektar has mentioned they might enable a MIDI mode, which would allow you to map an instrument then.

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4 minutes ago, Charlemagne said:

It's just for controlling audio effects plugins at the moment.

You can map any instrument, Logic or 3rd party, to the CS12, it's just there aren't any pre-mapped pages, you have to map them yourself. Click the link to the "Software Instruments and MIDI FX" section of my article: 

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19 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

You can map any instrument, Logic or 3rd party, to the CS12, it's just there aren't any pre-mapped pages, you have to map them yourself. Click the link to the "Software Instruments and MIDI FX" section of my article: 

David - is your article available as a PDF?

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For the knobs:

Quote

To quickly map a CS12 knob to a plug-in parameter:

  1. Press and hold down the Shift button,
  2. Click a plug-in parameter in Logic Pro,
  3. Turn a knob on the CS12,
  4. Release Shift.

You're done. You can repeat steps #2 and #3 to map as many parameters as you want before you release Shift. 

Sourcehttps://www.logicprohelp.com/articles/nektar-panorama-cs12-review-and-tutorial-r22/#Custom

Is this also possible for the fader?

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It's starting to make sense. I've successfully mapped my Diva soft synth filter cutoff to the CS12. The Controller Assignment window opened in Logic. Do I need to put Logic Controller Assignment in "Learn" mode?

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Too bad that the support for Nektar isn't this good. They do not include the question asked in their reply and talk in typical support doublespeak. I asked specific questions about the Nektarine 2.5.133 BETA (for use with Panorama CS12 only), and got a link to the "Getting Started" guide with ZERO reference to the CS12, no explanation of what the software actually does, why I need it and no answer to why if I don't need to enable the 4 new CS12 MIDI Inputs that now appear in Logic, why are they there?

The CS12 may ultimately be a great device but I have to wonder If better support, documentation, and broader user community and are worth going to SSL...

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3 hours ago, trstack said:

4 new CS12 MIDI Inputs that now appear in Logic, why are they there?

Logic control surface support is "modal" / is hierarchical - you can see this in the CS advanced assignments window.
There are "global" functions that work in any mode - transport, enter/exit, etc. These are known as "modeless" assignments.
There are modes that cover things such as instrument editing, fx editing, mixing, a.s.o.
Certainly with other Panorama devices, you enable the Mixer, etc. MIDI "devices"...but I'm not sure how ControlCore handles this/whether or not you need to do so with the CS12.

The drivers would - presumably - be universal for all Panorama devices.

3 hours ago, trstack said:

Too bad that the support for Nektar isn't this good.

Tim Chandler (Nektar's product specialist/dev) has long been a member here and answers questions that folks have....so we're fortunate to have this level of knowledge/support available.
WRT the support mechanism thru Nektar's portal - I've generally found them to be responsive and accurate, but would expect answers to Q's on beta software would only be available from higher level support techs or software engineers. Similarly, documentation would take time for beta software, so you might possibly get some beta notes, but nothing beyond this.
It's the nature of pre-release software....which many companies won't actually distribute, so Nektar are being responsive in developing the beta so quickly and allowing access to it.
This also applies to the firmware updates already made available for the CS12.
It seems they're interested in resolving issues as rapidly as possible.

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Hi.  Just getting into my CS12..couple of questions.

1.Im trying to assign software parameters to knobs...If I assign them using USER settings on the CS12, can the 12 knobs be assigned to the Software Instrument, and remembered when it's loaded up. I tried to do this, and it just stuck on ONE lot of settings or ONE software instrument.

2.Can they work with Kontakt libraries..where you have an instrument with in Kontact, like a string library..I couldn't get it to see it.

3.I had a problem with the firmware update, it asked for the firmware file, I could see it but it was greyed out.. strange....

Thanks for any support, its. great machine, trying to get my head around it.

Edited by robreed2
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Rob

I'll defer to others here but I can relate. I come from 45+ years of pre-midi hardware synths, early midi, workstations, software synths and MIDI keyboard controllers to a Logic based home studio setup. The CS12 is an incredible device.

  1. I haven't mapped any Kontakt controls to the CS12 yet
  2. The firmware is not where you think it is you need to navigate to locations in your Mac finder
  3. Haven't dealt with tempo yet

but...the integration with Logic for audio plugins is seamless (a term that is usually a lie). The ability to map key software synths to the CS12 knobs and have that parameter on the screen without memorizing MIDI CC commands is worth the price admission!

Edited by trstack
after 5pm, scotch, pour another
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I have owned a few Nektar products over the years, and I can say that the support folks are very responsive and accommodating. If an issue persists, it sticks with it until there’s either a solution or at least let me know when there are limitations that cannot be met by the product. I appreciate Justin, Tim and the other support folks there. 

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As there are plugins on CS12 which are not pre-mapped. Nektarine has an advanced mode for multi-mapping. Is there a very good video tutorial that explains all the possibilities in Nektarine for control mapping? The online manual gives a general overview of some terms, but not on a tutorial level with some plugin examples.

Edited by Sonas
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But that video is 2 years old and we have a new beta of Nektarine for the CS12 with zero info about what it does, features/benefits, why and how a new CS12 user would use it?

Do the engineers/programmers still not understand that there are musicians and consumers on the other end of their machinations? 

Hello, McFly?

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1 hour ago, trstack said:

a new beta

And therein lies the rub.
I understand that as a "musician and consumer on the other end of the machinations of engineers/programmers" (sic) you have expectations.
That said, as someone who works on the other side of the fence (as well as being a musician/consumer) I can tell you that engineering/development can take "years" - literally - to get a seemingly innocuous feature/function to work as musicians/consumers "expect".
In general terms, the "simpler" it is for the musician/consumer, the harder it is for the engineer/developer.
Many of the features folks take for granted that can perform an operation with a mouse click can have thousands of lines of code under-the-hood.
Logic, for example, has more lines of code than many operating systems.

That you haven't received a leather-bound manual and video tutorials hand-delivered by a supermodel for a BETA application shouldn't be an expectation, as you will be disappointed.
No-one does this, and company-supplied user guides/video tutorials themselves need to go thru a beta testing phase before they are officially released. This can take several months.

Alpha/beta apps are test versions, not "consumer" end products, so may/may not work as expected...and - at best - will come with some notes indicating that "function x" has been added or changed - and periodically there might be a description of the function....but generally not.
It's the nature of the beast with pre-release software.
No point in writing docs/making videos if the beta function is changed or dropped or implemented in a totally different way....often based on user feedback.....so it's an inefficient use of resources/a waste of time from a business POV and could lead to situations where the out of date "beta" help/videos are roaming free across the wildlands of the internet - but are inaccurate when it comes to the "release" version.
Any chance that end users who come across the "beta" videos/help are going to complain that "it doesn't work", "product X is crap", "company X don't even know how their own product works", etc....when they are running the release version?

That Nektar are providing beta software / firmware so quickly (based on user feedback) is a great thing as many other companies would leave folks hanging for weeks or months - without a word.
Similarly, Apple's rapid release of Sonoma 14.4.1 - which fixed iLok (and a couple of other) problems....happened in under a fortnight.

I appreciate that you want to make the most of your new toy, but being spoon-fed info for a BETA isn't going to happen, so you'll need to roll your sleeves up.
There is loads of info online about Nektarine - written and video - and the beta is minimally different to preceding versions....with a few CS12-specific extras added.
The other 99% of the Nektarine app is as-per earlier versions...so the 2 year old video (from a user, not Nektar) still applies....as do other recent/slightly older videos/docs.
So watch/read...and dive in - and if you discover some cool stuff/not so cool stuff - share it here.

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3 hours ago, oscwilde said:

So watch/read...and dive in - and if you discover some cool stuff/not so cool stuff - share it here.

A good place to start is by loading up an existing mapped plug-in to Nektarine and have a poke around with it

For the most part I would say that you don't actually need to use Nektarine unless you want to multi-page maps like the Fab Filter Q3 one or you want to rename controls to something that suits you better.

There are a couple of sync issues with the beta of Nektarine which I think have been previously mentioned on this site that necessitate you restarting Control Core to get an edited map to show up in Logic. The developers are aware of this and I think it is an area to be improved in the future.

One tip - make sure your CS12 is turned on when you go into Nektarine otherwise it will only display 8 encoders rather than 12

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7 hours ago, oscwilde said:

And therein lies the rub.
I understand that as a "musician and consumer on the other end of the machinations of engineers/programmers" (sic) you have expectations.
That said, as someone who works on the other side of the fence (as well as being a musician/consumer) I can tell you that engineering/development can take "years" - literally - to get a seemingly innocuous feature/function to work as musicians/consumers "expect".
In general terms, the "simpler" it is for the musician/consumer, the harder it is for the engineer/developer.
Many of the features folks take for granted that can perform an operation with a mouse click can have thousands of lines of code under-the-hood.
Logic, for example, has more lines of code than many operating systems.

That you haven't received a leather-bound manual and video tutorials hand-delivered by a supermodel for a BETA application shouldn't be an expectation, as you will be disappointed.
No-one does this, and company-supplied user guides/video tutorials themselves need to go thru a beta testing phase before they are officially released. This can take several months.

Alpha/beta apps are test versions, not "consumer" end products, so may/may not work as expected...and - at best - will come with some notes indicating that "function x" has been added or changed - and periodically there might be a description of the function....but generally not.
It's the nature of the beast with pre-release software.
No point in writing docs/making videos if the beta function is changed or dropped or implemented in a totally different way....often based on user feedback.....so it's an inefficient use of resources/a waste of time from a business POV and could lead to situations where the out of date "beta" help/videos are roaming free across the wildlands of the internet - but are inaccurate when it comes to the "release" version.
Any chance that end users who come across the "beta" videos/help are going to complain that "it doesn't work", "product X is crap", "company X don't even know how their own product works", etc....when they are running the release version?

That Nektar are providing beta software / firmware so quickly (based on user feedback) is a great thing as many other companies would leave folks hanging for weeks or months - without a word.
Similarly, Apple's rapid release of Sonoma 14.4.1 - which fixed iLok (and a couple of other) problems....happened in under a fortnight.

I appreciate that you want to make the most of your new toy, but being spoon-fed info for a BETA isn't going to happen, so you'll need to roll your sleeves up.
There is loads of info online about Nektarine - written and video - and the beta is minimally different to preceding versions....with a few CS12-specific extras added.
The other 99% of the Nektarine app is as-per earlier versions...so the 2 year old video (from a user, not Nektar) still applies....as do other recent/slightly older videos/docs.
So watch/read...and dive in - and if you discover some cool stuff/not so cool stuff - share it here.

Yeah, understand all that and happy to roll up my sleeves but, how about a simple README txt file included in the CS12 beta download that either summarizes or points to basic resources of what Nektarine is and how it relates to the CS12? Happy to start the journey but a compass might help.

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17 hours ago, robreed2 said:

Hi.  Just getting into my CS12..couple of questions.

1.Im trying to assign software parameters to knobs...If I assign them using USER settings on the CS12, can the 12 knobs be assigned to the Software Instrument, and remembered when it's loaded up. I tried to do this, and it just stuck on ONE lot of settings or ONE software instrument.

2.Can they work with Kontakt libraries..where you have an instrument with in Kontact, like a string library..I couldn't get it to see it.

3.I had a problem with the firmware update, it asked for the firmware file, I could see it but it was greyed out.. strange....

Thanks for any support, its. great machine, trying to get my head around it.

1.  If you map instrument parameters to the USER1 and USER2 pages in Channel mode, the settings are stored against the instrument - so changing tracks to a different instrument the controls will update automatically.  

 

2.  Kontakt is a dynamic plugin that presents different parameters according to the library.  Some libraries don't present any parameters at all.  To control a parameter on the CS12, it must be automatable in Logic.  The first 12 automatable parameters are presented across the 12 rotaries of CS12.  So my suggested way of working is to ensure the parameters in each library you want are set as the first 12 automation IDs.

 

3.  The firmware file is in the mountable drive you open to get the nkupdate.app:Screenshot2024-04-03at15_41_26.png.319493634dc94bd685f21978dfdc6404.png

 

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Thanks TChandler

Im still getting the USER 1 stuck, on the one instrument, if I change to a different instrument, Knob one shows the assignment to the 1st instrument I assigned it to, and I cant re assign it to the 2nd instrument loaded..I must be doing something wrong ?

The Kontakt plug is just way over my head at the moment to get it assigned...

Im also have strange stuff, when trying to use smart controls. Ill load an instrument, click smart controls , have to get Logic to see the instrument ( have to toggle Automatic Smart Controls), then it displays the smart controls for instrument, but the CS12 just shows the numbers/values, but not the name of the parameter, you have to hit Channel button again, then it displays the parameters.. this could be Logic.....   I have mine connected to a USB HUB powered, would this have any thing to do with it ?

BUT big thanks for taking time to reply 

ROB

Edited by robreed2
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Restating the need for basic info on Nektarine...

Yeah, understand all that and happy to roll up my sleeves but, how about a simple README txt file included in the CS12 beta download that either summarizes or points to basic resources of what Nektarine is and how it relates to the CS12? Do I need it, what does it do differently than the native CS12 functions? Happy to start the journey but basic direction might help.

If you are old enough to remember this modified phrase sums it up...Is Nektarine a dessert topping, a furniture polish or both?

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