studioj Posted November 21 Share Posted November 21 (edited) I did a search on this and was surprised not to see much reported about it. Stemming 30 cues for a show right now, and part of the process is cleaning out old stems that are silent in the current edit, so I don't bother stemming them... BUT there is so much material, quiet low level ambient things that are absolutely invisible in logic, even at maximum waveform zoom. See this screen shot. There is a perfectly audible cymbal scrape at this point in the waveform. It's not even that quiet. In pro tools when I max zoom this waveform I see a nice chunk/block of audio and it quickly gives me the info I need that there is audio present in this recording. I encourage anyone working with low level audio to submit feedback on this. Max level zoom should not display any detail at all, it should simply show where there is audio and where there isn't. Edited November 21 by studioj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted November 21 Share Posted November 21 Try using the Gain parameter in the Region inspector to apply some gain to the audio regions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studioj Posted November 21 Author Share Posted November 21 That is a good idea to check for low level audio and then return it to where it was, but that leaves room for error when printing stems on an approved mix, if it doesn't get back to where it was originally. Underscore can be incredibly dynamic, wouldn't you agree this is a shortcoming? I think any audible audio should be visible at least at maximum zoom. if anyone agrees, please submit feedback to apple. thanks for the idea, def beats listening through the whole stem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted November 21 Share Posted November 21 What peak level are your audio regions at? For reference, this is an audio region peaking at -54 dBFS, with no gain change, maximum waveform zoom level, so I can still see some signal: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studioj Posted November 21 Author Share Posted November 21 The peak of this file (it is only this little cymbal) is -44.25 dBFS. And it is invisible in Logic for me with waveform zoom on max (which automatically highlights the little waveform zoom toggle). Dunno if screen resolution is involved at all, but I'm working at max resolution in 4k. I've attached what this file looks like at max waveform zoom in Pro Tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studioj Posted November 21 Author Share Posted November 21 (edited) This has also been a problem when judging when music starts to fade up from nothing. You can't SEE the actual start of the music.... Which is critical in music editing and spotting workflows. I'm still on 10.7.9, I wonder if they partially addressed this in 10.8, which would explain your file at 10db quieter being visible. I did look for it in the notes, and didn't see it mentioned however. Edited November 21 by studioj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted November 21 Share Posted November 21 Ok I see it's because you're using a stereo file so the waveforms are twice smaller. I tried to bounce a cymbal at -44 dB in stereo and sure enough the waveform disappears, so unfortunately it's not fixed in 10.8. So yes, I do agree with you that we need to be able to zoom in closer on the waveform. I'd also add that it would be great if we could have different zoom level for different audio regions. Meanwhile I would use the region Gain parameter to increase the gain of these audio regions and thus better see their waveforms. So back to your previous answer... 10 hours ago, studioj said: That is a good idea to check for low level audio and then return it to where it was, but that leaves room for error when printing stems on an approved mix, if it doesn't get back to where it was originally. I'm not sure what you mean to be honest. What I suggested was for example increase the region's Gain parameter by for example 20 dB and then lower the channel strip fader by 20 dB. In any case just trying to think of a workaround, I completely agree that a more flexible waveform zoom would be most helpful in your situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studioj Posted November 21 Author Share Posted November 21 right, use some kind of offset to keep the gain higher but volume the same, makes sense! But I often have intricate volume automation going on... I know there is a trim, but getting complicated maybe... could use a gain plugin... too many workarounds tho. I hope this is something they can address. Please submit feedback if you are reading this.🙂 thx for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted November 21 Share Posted November 21 You're welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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