System Overload

[raoulflutter]

If I do this I get the System Overload message in LE8.

 

1. Create 1 audiotrack with the apple loop Club Dance Beat 001 running from measure 1 for 4 bars.

2. Create 1 Ultrabeat track and midi region with some notes starting at measure 5 running for 4 bars.

3. Create 1 ES2 track and midi region with a 4 note chord starting at measure 9 running for 4 bars.

4. Create another ES2 track and midi region with a 4 note chord starting at measure 13 running for 4 bars.

5. Set the playhead at the start of the project and Save.

6. Reboot the computer and open up Logic and just hit the play button. Do nothing else.

 

On my computer I get the message. Changing buffer size etc does not help. I use the internal sound card. But I've also tried with external with no change.

 

With this project I get it everytime, but I get it with other projects too, so this is more of a test. After I've run some Logic Projects the problem disappear. It seems that when Logics own plugins get used the first time after booting there is a spike in cpu.

[Spectacle]

Yeah, this has been reported all over this site ever since Logic 8 came out. You have to give the software instruments a chance to load up and get cached, essentially. Not really a concern. Just let the project sit for a few seconds after it is loaded up, and then press play to make sure things are all good before you actually record.

[physonect]

There is an applescript someone suggested that seems to work for some people (works great for me, i was getting lots of overloads before, haven't gotten one since).

 

Read through this thread and try it out:

 

http://logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=16909

[carrmar]

The script does not stop core overloads. I still get them.

[Spectacle]

The script does not stop core overloads. I still get them.

It sure seems to for some people. I haven't used it myself, since I haven't been getting the overloads (except in the occasional just-loaded case with software instruments as described above -- which isn't a problem and is resolved right away.

 

Maybe there's a system- or configuration-specific problem you (and others with your specific problems) are having?

[carrmar]

I swear I am not trying to be a dick but...

 

I can say from experience that the script does not stop overloads and it is frustrating to have people post misinformation.

 

The script does, however, do a tad bit of magic.

 

But it will NOT stop overloads, and THAT problem has yet to be solved.

[carrmar]

Sorry Spectacle, but it is hard to imagine that you are running multiple instances of multi-instruments and recording audio tracks and mixing them all. People who do all of those things get overloads.

[inmazevo]

Sorry you have the issue, raoulflutte.

 

I think the consensus of those who've tried everything they can find, and then some, is:

Not fixable by you... it's a defect... it's a bug...

 

Somewhere around here you can find my Core Audio Overload testing post to see what I've messed around with.

 

We're resorting to scripts now.

You can try the "renice -20" thing. It did nothing for me.

 

And I've also tried the "wait for logic to initialize" before hitting play. In fact, I have a little graph somewhere that looks like:

 

|Boot machine|Wait "n" seconds|Open Logic Pro|Wait "n" seconds|

- where "n" is the number of seconds.

(I tried all sorts of permutations of this before actually laughing at myself for being so desperate...)

 

File a defect report, and a Logic feedback report, and hope...

http://www.apple.com/feedback/logicpro.html

https://bugreport.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/RadarWeb.woa/wa/signIn

 

You'll have to create an apple developer account to file the defect report. Be specific when you post the problem, with detail.

 

Personally, I've sort of moved on, but I wish you (and everybody else) luck with it. Once/if they fix it (been a few years now though), I'll put LP back where it belongs. I still use it, and will continue to, but not like I wanted to.

 

- zevo

[Fred B]

I think the consensus of those who've tried everything they can find, and then some, is:

Not fixable by you... it's a defect... it's a bug...

Actually I think it's a basic design flaw, buried in legacy code and probably not easy to fix. Quite disappointing that Logic 8 seems just a cosmetic overhaul and not a redesign of essential functions.

.

[inmazevo]

I think the consensus of those who've tried everything they can find, and then some, is:

Not fixable by you... it's a defect... it's a bug...

Actually I think it's a basic design flaw, buried in legacy code and probably not easy to fix. Quite disappointing that Logic 8 seems just a cosmetic overhaul and not a redesign of essential functions.

.

 

I, too, was truly shocked to see this defect still around after all this time with no Logic movement.

 

I definitely like the UI updates, but things like Core Audio overloads are much more important (and should have been fixed for free a long time ago).

 

There's another bug that's funny to me as well:

The one where you stop a project while playing, rewind to the beginning, and play back again: the audio buffers, or something buffering-like, will play back bits from where you stopped (consequently, this one EVEN makes it into bounces if you do that). It's also easy to reproduce, and is very well documented.

 

What's striking to me is this:

I'm a software developer of test automation code. I run tests... that's what I do.

 

Core Audio Overloads are 100% reproduceable by myself and several others (including members of my team), on different machines, with different interfaces, with built-in (Logic Pro only) plugins.

 

How can Apple/Emagic not fix this?

To be brutally honest, it makes me question their abilities a little. (I don't mean technical abilities... I mean their corporate ability to test, communicate, and fix defects).

Something is breaking down somewhere within the Logic Pro creation and maintenance... either business, or engineering, or both.

 

I Don't mean that arrogantly, but goodness. It's such an old bug, and it looks horrible when it happens. People laugh (I've had people laugh, actually).

 

I know there are many who claim its not an issue for them, and I believe them, I really do. But I bet I can reproduce it in 3 minutes on their machines if the machines are Intel chipped. (actually, I know I can).

 

Ah well... so it goes.

I think Apple thinks the issue is resoved... and it's YOU, or something you're doing (not you specifically). They have their little article on what might cause it, and on to the back burner it went.

 

Once that happens, in my experience, bugs can sit around for a VERY long time (pretty much like this one).

 

I have noticed a few things, though:

It's worse on Intel's, or at least there aren't as many reports.

It's MUCH worse when you have to reboot your machine often (ie - laptops).

It's MUCH worse if you use a lot of software instruments (doesn't matter whether their built-in or 3rd party though)

 

Not to say it won't happen if you're outside of that camp.

 

Take care,

- zevo

[Fred B]

How can Apple/Emagic not fix this?

To be brutally honest, it makes me question their abilities a little. (I don't mean technical abilities... I mean their corporate ability to test, communicate, and fix defects).

I guess that Apple and the developers are well aware of the problem. Of course, the question remains WHY it's not corrected. As mentioned elsewhere, OS X as a Unix-based system isn't primarily suited to realtime audio, but other DAWs and audio software clearly demonstrate that smooth operation is possible.

.

[Spectacle]

Sorry Spectacle, but it is hard to imagine that you are running multiple instances of multi-instruments and recording audio tracks and mixing them all. People who do all of those things get overloads.

No need to apologize to me. I'm good.

 

Go to GearSlutz and read their threads on this. A bunch of people are not experiencing overloads either, and a bunch are -- but a number of those who are are only getting it sometimes with certain 3rd-party stuff. One guy even did a step-by-step test after a clean re-install of both OS 10.4.11 and Logic Studio and found that it was only UAD stuff that gave him any trouble at all.

 

And on the BigBlueLounge, quite a few people have been raving about how great the "nice value" change has been and how it has stopped their overloads.

 

So, yeah, plenty of people are NOT getting the overloads -- Logic 8 is actually more CPU efficient for me than Logic 7 was (though I readily admit that large-sample software instruments do tend to use more of the breakdown of resources available than before -- though not in a crippling or generally overload-message producing way), and Logic 8 is quite a bit more stable than Logic 7. 8)

 

I wouldn't rush to say that this is a "bug", since it seems to be an issue for some people but not others. Perhaps a better way to address it would be to note that Logic seems to be allocating resources in a different way than it used to, and this may require some system tweaking for a number of us. That's not good, but it's a different type of approach, and one that should be much easier for us to solve than just saying it's a bug and giving in. By all means, let Apple know about your difficulties, but let's keep trying to come up with solutions. Check those threads on GS and BBL, and see if there's maybe something they're doing that you're not. Share settings, etc. We'll get there.

[carrmar]

Spectacle,

 

I respect you for pumping the positivity, but I just watched my friend install Logic Pro on his computer (with no 3rd party stuff) a couple of weeks ago and load up one of the demo songs; the overload occurred.

It was embarrassing, because I turned him onto Logic.

I had to tell him, "Oh yeah, you have to work with those."

I saw it happen with my own two eyes. Overloads occur even without 3rd party plugs.

[raoulflutter]

Spectacle, could you try this on your machine to see that is not giving you overload?

 

1. Create 1 audiotrack with the apple loop Club Dance Beat 001 running from measure 1 for 4 bars.

2. Create 1 Ultrabeat track and midi region with some notes starting at measure 5 running for 4 bars.

3. Create 1 ES2 track and midi region with a 4 note chord starting at measure 9 running for 4 bars.

4. Create another ES2 track and midi region with a 4 note chord starting at measure 13 running for 4 bars.

5. Set the playhead at the start of the project and Save.

6. Reboot the computer and open up Logic and just hit the play button. Do nothing else.

[Spectacle]

Spectacle, could you try this on your machine to see that is not giving you overload?

 

1. Create 1 audiotrack with the apple loop Club Dance Beat 001 running from measure 1 for 4 bars.

2. Create 1 Ultrabeat track and midi region with some notes starting at measure 5 running for 4 bars.

3. Create 1 ES2 track and midi region with a 4 note chord starting at measure 9 running for 4 bars.

4. Create another ES2 track and midi region with a 4 note chord starting at measure 13 running for 4 bars.

5. Set the playhead at the start of the project and Save.

6. Reboot the computer and open up Logic and just hit the play button. Do nothing else.

Not yet. I'm away from home. But I'll try it when I get a chance.

 

Edit: I'll still do it, but I just noticed that this is what you started the thread with. And as you'll see from my responses above, I know that the "System Overload" message does come up occasionally right when you open a song with VIs in it and press play, or when a particularly good virtual instrument starts playing for the first time. But this really isn't a big deal, and it goes away once things really seem to be loaded up. Again, wait a couple of seconds after loading the song up, press play to make sure that it gets any such message out of the way if it isn't fully cached yet, and then get working. All good.

 

But this happened in Logic 7, too. And far more often in my experience. I'll still try your test out when I get home onto my system, though, and I'll report my results (and anything I can do that might alter them). 8)

Edited November 25, 2007 by Spectacle

[Spectacle]

Spectacle,

 

I respect you for pumping the positivity, but I just watched my friend install Logic Pro on his computer (with no 3rd party stuff) a couple of weeks ago and load up one of the demo songs; the overload occurred.

It was embarrassing, because I turned him onto Logic.

I had to tell him, "Oh yeah, you have to work with those."

I saw it happen with my own two eyes. Overloads occur even without 3rd party plugs.

Carrmar, I totally believe you that overloads happen without 3rd party plugs. I'm not claiming that they don't. I'm just pointing out that while they seem to for a lot of people, they also don't for a lot of others. This is key. It isn't denying that people are having problems, but it does argue pretty strongly against claims of some universal "bug" that makes Logic a really problematic situation for everyone. Essentially, it means one of two things:

 

1) Either differences between systems and setups (hardware, interfaces, hard drives, drivers, buffer settings, 3rd-party plugs, etc. all will affect this)

2) Or Apple sent out some corrupt versions of the Logic Studio software alongside perfectly fine versions

 

Number one sounds a lot more reasonable to me. But you never know.

 

And for the script point. I'm sorry that it hasn't worked for you Carrmar. But it most definitely HAS worked for a number of posters I have read over the past few days (many of the guys on the BBL are just bubbly over it). As with the point above, just because you're having the experience it doesn't logically follow that your experience is necessarily representative of everyone's experience. Because the script didn't work for you doesn't mean that it "doesn't stop overloads". It means that it didn't fix your overloads. Which means that there must be some sort of difference between what's going on on your system and on those of the people this has been a fix for.

 

As for the 3rd party stuff, here's the guy who did the test:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/1650201-post74.html

 

His experience, not mine. But there are literally dozens of people (from self-admitted hobbyist types up through major-league pros really pushing their systems) who have posted all over these forums saying that it's all good. And most people without any troubles aren't even going to get on-line to a forum to post about it. Doesn't discount any of the issues whatsoever, just suggests that we may need to try to figure out what the specific concerns are with the people having the difficulties. 8)

[Fred B]

I know that the "System Overload" message does come up occasionally right when you open a song with VIs in it and press play, or when a particularly good virtual instrument starts playing for the first time. But this really isn't a big deal, and it goes away once things really seem to be loaded up. Again, wait a couple of seconds after loading the song up, press play to make sure that it gets any such message out of the way if it isn't fully cached yet, and then get working. All good.

Not all good for me. I find this behavior of Logic VERY annoying.

.

[carrmar]

I'm just not a believer. It is in the code. Period.

[robgb]

The script fix worked for me. Did it stop overloads completely? No. But drastically reduced them and I'm a much happier camper now.

 

rgb

[rob glow]

The script fix worked for me. Did it stop overloads completely? No. But drastically reduced them and I'm a much happier camper now.

 

rgb

 

The script is likely to work better for people who run a lot of apps alongside Logic. If you ONLY use Logic then there's no reason that the script would make any difference at all.

 

It prioritises Logic above other apps, so if no other apps* are running, it's already the top priority...

 

*when I say apps, I mean all software apart from basic OS X code. That includes background apps and random extra kernel code seen in activity monitor.

[robgb]

The script is likely to work better for people who run a lot of apps alongside Logic. If you ONLY use Logic then there's no reason that the script would make any difference at all.

 

It prioritises Logic above other apps, so if no other apps* are running, it's already the top priority...

 

*when I say apps, I mean all software apart from basic OS X code. That includes background apps and random extra kernel code seen in activity monitor.

 

Hmm. The only thing I'm running is Logic. I have three PC's for other stuff. I just bought my first Mac and have been running Logic for about two weeks now, nothing else. And the script made a very big difference for me.

 

I can't explain the whys. I only know that it has helped. I went from constant overloads to very few -- mostly none -- running about fifteen to twenty tracks, samples and audio, most with multiple effects.

 

I was using Nuendo on a PC before, by the way, and never managed to reach that kind of reliability when using multiple plug-ins. Stuttering audio vs. horrible latency used to be my life.

 

No more with Logic. And it's even better since I started using the script.

 

Not trying to mislead anyone here. Simply sharing my own experience.

[robgb]

DUPE

[Thomas L]

Also, if you run nicer you could up the "coreaudiod" task as well. It is run as root.

 

On my dual G5 the script plus the above solved many overload spikes in songs previously running fine in 7. Think I'm on the edge for what my system can cope with. Doh...

 

 

Best

Thomas

[carrmar]

Spectacle,

 

How do you use Logic? Do you record bands -- if so, how many tracks are you f*#@ing with? Are you an electronic musician -- if so, how many instruments are you running simultaneously? Are you using multi-instruments?

 

I do not believe that my hardware is different than any number of musicians out there. At home I use an M-audio Firewire 410. I have a Mac Pro. These are standard music-making pieces of hardware and I believe that having overloads is ridiculous with some common-place hardware.

 

I don't believe you giving Logic a good enough workout. If you did, you would get overloads every once in a while.

 

I am not dismissing Logic. It is my favorite app! But let's get real:

 

The problem is in Logic, not my hardware.

[Ashermusic]

I am not dismissing or denying anyone's experiences with L7 and L8.

 

But here on my system in very plug-in and softsynth intensive pieces in L7 I got occasional system overload messages particularly the first or second time I hit play after opening it before it "settled in" but not enough to be anything other than a mere annoyance.

 

In L8 it is much the same but far fewer system overload messages.

 

Specifically , I just loaded a song that has the following:

ArtVista Virtual Grand (Kontakt player),

Spectrasoncis Stylus RMX, Trilogy, and Atmoshere

LInplug Albino 3, Crono X3, and Octopus,

XLN's Addictive Drums

EVP 88, EVB3, and EVD6 and 8 EXS24s

Several UAD-1 and 3rd party plug-ins and a bunch of Logic plug-ins.

 

Not so much as a hiccup. The only time I start to get System Overload messages is when I try to open a 3rd party plug-in while the sequencer is running.

 

Here comes a lecture:)

 

I have recently become aware that many of you do this. This is BAD practice. You are begging for corrupted files, overload messages, etc.

 

Slow down a little. My guess is not only will you get a better performance you will also get a better mix/composition. Despite what MTV has conditioned people to think faster is not always better. Somtimes haste does indeed make waste.

Edited November 26, 2007 by Ashermusic

[dkgross]

what I find interesting in reading this thread, and the original 'here's a script for you' thread..is the analogy between Western and Eastern medicine.

 

'the script fix' is typcially Western. 'We don't know what's causing the problem, so here's a pill to make you feel better'.

 

while I do think there's some screwed up code that people are dealing with, I also think that some more detailed troublshooting on INDIVIDIUAL systems is in order. I also think 3rd party apps play a big roll, as well as 'other' things running in the background (do you have some Weather Radar monster widget running??)

 

Both my Quad G5 and MPB get VERY few core overloads. I have no idea why, but, when I'm running Logic, I'm NOT running anything thing else..no web browsers, nothing...

[robgb]

what I find interesting in reading this thread, and the original 'here's a script for you' thread..is the analogy between Western and Eastern medicine.

 

'the script fix' is typcially Western. 'We don't know what's causing the problem, so here's a pill to make you feel better'.

 

while I do think there's some screwed up code that people are dealing with, I also think that some more detailed troublshooting on INDIVIDIUAL systems is in order. I also think 3rd party apps play a big roll, as well as 'other' things running in the background (do you have some Weather Radar monster widget running??)

 

Both my Quad G5 and MPB get VERY few core overloads. I have no idea why, but, when I'm running Logic, I'm NOT running anything thing else..no web browsers, nothing...

 

I think most of us went through intensive troubleshooting with our systems, etc., before we resorted to using the script. Nothing seemed to work for me except the script.

 

Granted, I'm not using an ultra powerful Mac. I have a couple of monster PC machines that I run Nuendo, etc. on, but Mac and Logic kept calling out to me to give it a try, so I popped for a new Mac Mini with a gig of RAM.

 

I'm sure I could up the RAM to 2 gigs, replace the standard 5400 drive with a 7200 and that would make a huge difference. But I'm not ready to go there yet and, from what I've heard, even people with bigger and better machines are experiencing this problem.

 

So it sounds like an Apple/Logic flaw and until they fix it, the script is helping me out tremendously.

 

By the way, I've said this before, but I LOVE Logic. It's feature rich, plug-in rich. I used to think that I had to have all the best plug-ins, samplers and gear, but what I've discovered is that I can do just about everything I want to in Logic. Because, after all, it ain't the gear that makes the music. It's you.

[dkgross]

understood.

 

All I know is that I'm running L8 on 10.4.11, on a Quad G5 PPC with 4.5 gigs of ram, using MOSTLY VI's (and an occaisional external synth), and I almost NEVER get the Overload message...

[inmazevo]

I've tried everything I can think of:

- base system installs... full system installs

- base Logic Pro 8 install... full Logic Suite install

- tiny project (2-3 tracks)... small projects (4-6 tracks)... small/medium projects (7-12 tracks)

- included plugins only... included + 3rd party plugins

- built-in soundcard, MOTU 828, Mackie Onyx Satellite, Focusrite Saffire

- boot and wait to hit play... boot and immediately hit play

- 5400 rpm drives... 7200 rpm drives (even swapped them around internal/external)

- projects on internal/samples on external... projects and samples on external... projects on external/samples on internal

- "apple" ram... 3rd party ram

- 1GB, 1.5GB, 2.0GB ram

- running on battery... running plugged in

- all of the power/performance settings available to me

- all combinations of audio setups within Logic Pro available to me

- the "renice" code, and several other scripts

 

The only projects that will play without this are test projects that include only audio/audio loops with no effects/channel EQ.

 

I've tried this on 3 machines.

 

Honestly, I get it with every 1st project, most second projects, and most 3rd projects... every time I boot the machines, simply from hitting play: no edits, no ui interaction... nothing. And I never run anything other than Logic.

 

Sure, once I've played the first 2 or 3 projects, 2 or 3 times each, the likelihood of getting an overload decreases significantly. However, that's 20-30 minutes of down time, every time I start the machine.

 

I LOVE this application. Or, should I say... I love the idea of this application. It has every feature I want out of a DAW, from the editing, to the instruments, to the effects, to the layout, to the customization. I use Sonar too, and Ableton Live, and played around with Project5, and used to use Cubase. Of them all, Logic Pro is my favorite for many, many reasons.

 

But, I'm honestly starting to want my money back (which, in the US is next to impossible where software is concerned).

 

It's sad (and unusable), to me, that Logic Pro on my systems has to go through a warm-up period (that I hit often) to play 3 track midi sequences of built-in instruments and no effects, when Live and Sonar, on the same machines, will run 30 track midi sequences/audio loops with 3rd party instruments, with EQs and Effects galore.

 

I'm NOT saying they're better apps. As I said, I PREFER Logic Pro.

Just pointing out that my machine/hardware configurations are otherwise quite stable.

 

- zevo

[jera]

Spectacle, could you try this on your machine to see that is not giving you overload?

 

1. Create 1 audiotrack with the apple loop Club Dance Beat 001 running from measure 1 for 4 bars.

2. Create 1 Ultrabeat track and midi region with some notes starting at measure 5 running for 4 bars.

3. Create 1 ES2 track and midi region with a 4 note chord starting at measure 9 running for 4 bars.

4. Create another ES2 track and midi region with a 4 note chord starting at measure 13 running for 4 bars.

5. Set the playhead at the start of the project and Save.

6. Reboot the computer and open up Logic and just hit the play button. Do nothing else.

 

just did that on my macbook 2Ghz DuoCore with 1.5 Gb RAM, 10.4.10 and everything played fine. The CPU meter barely moved and the disk meter didn't move.

and I also mix songs with 40+ audio tracks (no instruments) with no problems.

last week I had overloads on a session with 36 audio tracks. I'm cleaning the HD to see if things get better.