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Volume wih Multitimbrals....again


Brickstone

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Hey. I am trying to get the volume automation to work on EWQLSO as a multitimbral. I can't get it to work.

 

Hi Nick,

 

The template does work with EWQLSO but lately I have come to question its use.

I had some pieces that I had done with the template in Logic 7. Last week I read somewhere that East West was recommending NOT using multitimbral mode with Logic. They instead recommending using separate instances of the Kompakt (Kontakt?) player. I understood it to be something about improved multithreading in Logic and/or OS X.

 

I tried it both ways in Logic 8.

Multitimbral redlined the CPU and stuttered.

Separate instances barely redlined and played smooth. Also it was way easier to setup and use and responds to midi messages. So for now I am orchestrating this way on my limited G4.

 

Any others care to report in about the use of separate instances of the Kompakt Kontakt players?

 

Mark R.

 

1.2 Ghz G4, OS X 10.4.11

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I just set up the tracks as "create new track"> Multitimbral > select 8 tracks and then they appear in the arrange window. Just make sure each track has a different channel number for it to work (in the parameter box). The first channel is channel 1 in Kompakt etc. I don't seem to have any problem using it this way. I used the Multi template when I was using Logic 7 but now I don't really need that.
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I just set up the tracks as "create new track"> Multitimbral > select 8 tracks and then they appear in the arrange window. Just make sure each track has a different channel number for it to work (in the parameter box). The first channel is channel 1 in Kompakt etc. I don't seem to have any problem using it this way. I used the Multi template when I was using Logic 7 but now I don't really need that.

Yes, but you still need Aux tracks for volume automation. And with David's template you can do volume automation on the instrument tracks without having any Aux tracks in the arrange window.

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Any others care to report in about the use of separate instances of the Kompakt Kontakt players?

In my experience with Kontakt, the main disadvantage of separate instances is higher RAM usage and load time. Regarding CPU it makes no difference for me. The multithreading aspect seems interesting, but I'm surprised that it may have an effect on a single processor machine.

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Hey. I am trying to get the volume automation to work on EWQLSO as a multitimbral. I can't get it to work.

 

Hi Nick,

 

The template does work with EWQLSO but lately I have come to question its use.

I had some pieces that I had done with the template in Logic 7. Last week I read somewhere that East West was recommending NOT using multitimbral mode with Logic. They instead recommending using separate instances of the Kompakt (Kontakt?) player. I understood it to be something about improved multithreading in Logic and/or OS X.

 

I tried it both ways in Logic 8.

Multitimbral redlined the CPU and stuttered.

Separate instances barely redlined and played smooth. Also it was way easier to setup and use and responds to midi messages. So for now I am orchestrating this way on my limited G4.

 

Any others care to report in about the use of separate instances of the Kompakt Kontakt players?

 

Mark R.

 

I am running logic 7.0.1 and don't really seem to run into many problems with CPU when I load the multitimbral instruments. The main thing is that I need to have a autoload with all of my instruments available so I can write without having to deal with constantly loading all of the patches on the fly.

Maybe I am just not understanding how to properly use the template David posted. When I downloaded it, there were no visable cable paths and I wasn't quite sure how to connect everything. Does anyone have a template they can show me where they are using EWQLSO that I might take a look at. Thanks for your help...

1.2 Ghz G4, OS X 10.4.11

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I am running logic 7.0.1 and don't really seem to run into many problems with CPU when I load the multitimbral instruments. The main thing is that I need to have a autoload with all of my instruments available so I can write without having to deal with constantly loading all of the patches on the fly.

Maybe I am just not understanding how to properly use the template David posted. When I downloaded it, there were no visable cable paths and I wasn't quite sure how to connect everything. Does anyone have a template they can show me where they are using EWQLSO that I might take a look at. Thanks for your help...

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Hey Nick-

I've been having the same EWQLSO multi instrument problem.

My multi plays midi on subchannels but all faders act as master faders, thus no track automation.

I examined David's template and found it too sophisticated for my current knowledge level.

I have tried methods posted on this and other forums.

Getting the track automation via Aux Channels is eluding me. Have you had any luck lately?

Thanks

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Still no luck with the Aux's. I was able to get David's template to work, but I can't recreate it and refuse to start working on a session that I don't understand. What I have done, which I am not too excited about, is isolate the midi command in EWQLSO for vlume and pan. I was able to then create a duplicate instrument channel for each sub channel and use the midi commands from EWQLSO to automate the volume and pan, etc. The only problem now is that I have a clusterf--k going on in my arrange window and still can't do rides with the faders. Can someone just write a step by step on how David put together his template?
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Any others care to report in about the use of separate instances of the Kompakt Kontakt players?

In my experience with Kontakt, the main disadvantage of separate instances is higher RAM usage and load time. Regarding CPU it makes no difference for me. The multithreading aspect seems interesting, but I'm surprised that it may have an effect on a single processor machine.

 

That's been my experience with Kontakt also. However, if you're going to run Kontakt as a multitimbral instrument, it's better to use the multiout versions and route each output to a separate aux channel. Otherwise you wind up doing half of your mixing in Kontakt.

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Still no luck with the Aux's. I was able to get David's template to work, but I can't recreate it and refuse to start working on a session that I don't understand.

Well, first you need to understand the basic functions of environment objects like multi instrument, transformer and channel splitter. It's all explained in the manual.

 

Now, the main point of David's template is to route MIDI volume/pan to the corresponding Aux objects. This is done with transformer and channel splitter. The secondary point is to route the Auxes back to the sub-channels of the multi instrument. It's not crucial for basic functionality, but ensures that the the Aux and MIDI faders will always move in sync.

 

Note that in Logic 8 you can set up multitimbral instruments without using the environment at all. However, in contrast to David's template you'd need to do volume/pan automation directly on the Aux tracks.

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OK... so everything is set up almost right...but no matter what sub channel I have selected, it keeps turning the instrument channel down. I can't seem to seperate the sub channel volume/pan commands from the instrument track. Why is this so freakin hard? What am I doing wrong...or more than likely...not doing.
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So, I am attaching my test session. I only created one aux, but other than that, everything looks like it did in the template. It works in every possible way, except the instrument fader keeps responding to the sub channel fader commands. I can't for the life of me figure out why. If someone can take a look at the session and help me out I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

Logic_WW_TEST_01.lso

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I've looked at your session. The cabling seems basically ok, but your transformer isn't set up properly. Have a look at the transformer in David's template and just use the same settings. But also try to *understand* the settings. When working in the environment you really need to know what you're doing.

.

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Hey Nick-

Like you I've been beating my head against the desk over this multi instrument thing for days but I just figured it out.

I was overlooking the EWQLSO/Kompakt output channel selector button located to the right of the midi selector button. I assigned different paired outputs for each instrument slot and all of a sudden my aux tracks had signal! Problem solved. I could then isolate the eight instruments for volume, effect, etc

No transformers, or splitters.

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Hey Nick-

Like you I've been beating my head against the desk over this multi instrument thing for days but I just figured it out.

I was overlooking the EWQLSO/Kompakt output channel selector button located to the right of the midi selector button. I assigned different paired outputs for each instrument slot and all of a sudden my aux tracks had signal! Problem solved. I could then isolate the eight instruments for volume, effect, etc

No transformers, or splitters.

 

I still believe that the most efficient way of mixing software instrument that are both multi-timbral and multi-output is:

 

1. Create a multi-timbral instrument.

 

2. In the GUI assign the sounds to different midi channels, i.e. 1-8. and different outputs i.e. 1-8

 

3. Create the number of auxes you wish to utilize and then assign the input to

the corresponding output of the software instrument sound.

 

4. Add your FX to the auxes and automate the auxes rather than the software instrument itself.

 

This allows you, when you are finished composing and are strictly mixing, to put all the mid parts in a folder or hide them and simply deal with audio tracks and auxes in the Arrange and Mixer windows.

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Exactly!

The part that I got hung up on consistently and NEVER found clearly spelled out was properly setting the OUTPUTs on Kompakt in addition to inputs on those aux channels. It's rather simple looking back now.

I'm not out of the woods yet. Even though my solution didn't utilize splitters and transformers like David's template I am determined to figure those environment elements out.

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I'm not out of the woods yet. Even though my solution didn't utilize splitters and transformers like David's template I am determined to figure those environment elements out.

Yes, David's template is definitely the most general and flexible solution. For example, when composing you may not need effect processing on the individual output/aux channels. In this case it makes no sense to have separate aux tracks just for volume/pan control. Now, using David's template you can hide the whole aux business from the arrange window, and thus have just one ordinary MIDI track for each instrument channel.

.

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I'm not out of the woods yet. Even though my solution didn't utilize splitters and transformers like David's template I am determined to figure those environment elements out.

Yes, David's template is definitely the most general and flexible solution. For example, when composing you may not need effect processing on the individual output/aux channels. In this case it makes no sense to have separate aux tracks just for volume/pan control. Now, using David's template you can hide the whole aux business from the arrange window, and thus have just one ordinary MIDI track for each instrument channel.

.

 

It certainly is another way to go. For me, I like the control auxes give me to use processing on some of the sounds and no on others and not have to worry about it.

 

And even though I know how to do it and can set it up I really prefer to keep it simpler without transformers et al, especially because when I am teaching others how to work in Logic those kind of things can be difficult for them to get their head around.

 

If memory serves me, this is the methodology for using multi-timbral/multi-output with Stylus RMX that Spectrasonics demonstrates in their videos.

 

Horses for courses I guess.

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