fader8 Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 I've discovered something unpleasant as a result of a thread I'm involved in over on the Apple LP8 forum. I made a test song that has 3 tracks, 1 EXS, 1 external hardware sampler and 1 audio track. The content for all 3 is a 700Hz burst, 2 cycles long. (sounds just like a tennis racket hitting a tennis ball, btw) Apparently Plug-in delay compensation in Logic Pro 8 does not work for Instrument channels that have the External Instrument plug-in. Somehow instanciating that plug tells Logic to ignore any plug-in delays reported by any effects plug-ins inserted on that channelstrip, regardless of the PDC mode. PDC on that channelstrip works fine if there's an EXS or other virtual instrument inserted. So, a heads up if you're doing this. The workaround is to send the ext inst channel to an aux and put any effects you want on the aux. I believe these will then be compensated for, but I'll test that tonight to be sure.. Sorry for the news. I'm still poking around with this new PDC system looking for pitfalls. Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Cool, thanks a lot for the info and the workaround. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkgross Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 So, a heads up if you're doing this. The workaround is to send the ext inst channel to an aux and put any effects you want on the aux. THAT little tidbit is worth the price of admission alone. THANK YOU. I tried just the other day to do this with a patch on my Triton (in External mode on the channel strip) and I was running into the PDC issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fader8 Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 So, a heads up if you're doing this. The workaround is to send the ext inst channel to an aux and put any effects you want on the aux. THAT little tidbit is worth the price of admission alone. THANK YOU. Hey your welcome Dave. I have now confirmed that putting your effects inserts into an aux fed by the track external instrument channelstrip does get compensated for, as I expected. Of course, PDC must be set to All for this. Another note on this; your MIDI/audio round trip time for the external instrument path can get pretty high. For one of my modules it's almost a 600 sample delay @44.1. If you're recording live MIDI this isn't a big deal as you compensate in realtime anyway as you play. But if you're inputting notes on, or quantizing to, the grid and you want stuff really tight, insert a Latency Fixer plug on that aux and adjust to taste. You can certainly calibrate it too, if you wanted to go to the trouble. New software is always an adventure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlm Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Is there an advantage to using a latency fixer plugin as you suggested rather than manually compensating using the MIDI delay value to on the ext inst track? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fader8 Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 Is there an advantage to using a latency fixer plugin as you suggested rather than manually compensating using the MIDI delay value to on the ext inst track? The advantages to using the MIDI delay in the inspector is that you can make changes in realtime while you listen, and you can do it by region. The advantage to doing it with a Latency Fixer is you can enter values directly in samples or mSec's and it's globally applied for the whole track. So, depends on what you're doing and what's more convenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashermusic Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 As usual, Fader8 diagnoses a problem, explains it, and suggests a workaround. Fader8 you are a model forum participant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkgross Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 and, he's a cheery chap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fader8 Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 Wow, thanks guys. I feel so . . . (snif) . special . . (sob) . . now, . . I really love you man . . (snif) . . Where's my hanky . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashermusic Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Wow, thanks guys. I feel so . . . (snif) . special . . (sob) . . now, . . I really love you man . . (snif) . . Where's my hanky . . Clearly, you need to hang out with the Amish in your area a little more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fader8 Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 Clearly, you need to hang out with the Amish in your area a little more Well, I think the Amish Science Fair is coming up, and there's a pig roast after. Chicken Corn Soup and Funnel Cakes anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Sometimes I dream of a forum where every post looks like this one. Then I also have a nightmare where every single post has an ALL CAPS title with a lot of !!! like "URGENT PLEASE HELP!!!! " or some other nondescript nonsense. Then I click on one of them and the post reads "EH, howw to i to get sound in my MAC logic recording? Tried pink button but donot work URGENT PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!". Of course the avatar is a broken link. And when I try to edit the post Safari says "server not responding". My worst nightmare. Keeps me up at night. I have to breathe deeply and picture Fader8's ever-changing colored cartoon avatars one after the other, placing them mentally on a Christmas Tree, to calm down and go back to sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fader8 Posted December 14, 2007 Author Share Posted December 14, 2007 Then I also have a nightmare where every single post has . . . . . Yes, but remember, every once in a while there's a real gem in some of those posts. My recent favorite: " i doing electro beats...but i also record music..." Ya know David, now that the books all done, I think you need a vacation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkgross Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 fader..you SOOO have to come to NAMM. We should chat. David..I'm about ready to start planning something (and starting a NAMM thread). Shall I? Can we Sticky It? I know it's a month away..but, ya know..plan early, plan often... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylark Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Apparently Plug-in delay compensation in Logic Pro 8 does not work for Instrument channels that have the External Instrument plug-in. The workaround is to send the ext inst channel to an aux and put any effects you want on the aux. Thanks, Fader8, for the detective work and the information. Appreciated… I hope an update addresses this issue, though. Kinda defeats the purpose of using the plug-in at all, don'tcha think? Along with the apparent inability to access the external synth program lists from the External Instrument plug-in, looks like the whole Ext Inst plug-in feature is largely useless, or at least superfluous. I mean… How is it advantageous to use an Ext Inst plug-in (plus a separate aux track for effects) versus using an Ext MIDI track and an audio track for return? I have about 28 external synths, 16 of which I'd like to integrate into my Logic setup. Is there any good reason why the Logic team would omit something as fundamental as program access from the Ext Inst plug-in scheme? Am I completely missing something? (Highly possible, I know…) Anyway… Thanks for your excellent contribution! I'm determined to increase my understanding and wrestle this beast into submission! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fader8 Posted January 19, 2008 Author Share Posted January 19, 2008 I mean… How is it advantageous to use an Ext Inst plug-in (plus a separate aux track for effects) versus using an Ext MIDI track and an audio track for return? Well, it's not! At this point it's just a workflow preference. I agree that for now, using a MIDI track and an audio track is the more practical way as you can benefit from the MIDI track's features. Just something we have to live with until it's fixed. It's not a crippling bug, so we've got that going for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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