Tab to Transient Like Operations in Logic 8

[Eric Cardenas]

I suppose that from the programmers point of view the Split Regions by Locators command now does work "as expected".

 

Yeah... I think that was the wat the way they intended to work.

But now that we now that that it is possible to get a workflow for drum quantizing they should be able to implement an interface for it to work with improved overview and flexibility.

 

If we send feedback to apple about this and we do it in large amounts maybe our prayers will be heard!

[grooveroom]

I just got Spark an easy and free Shortcut/Macro Tool (took me a while, to find something like that for _free for OSX...) -- created a new Keystroke-Hotkey (File - New Hotkey - Keyboard - Keystroke), put my 'toggle groups' 'split' 'toggle groups' 'marquee start on next transient'-commands in there, assigned it to F10... and guess what: it works like a charm.

[transmission]

Wow, this is exactly what I needed, thanks!

 

But I'm having some problems. When I cut multiple tracks at the transients they shift slightly on the timeline and throw everything off. I feel like I must have some sort of setting applied that I shouldn't. Also, the tab to to transient function is very sensitive, and often I have to tab four or five times to reach one where I can cut. What's going on?

[davidpye]

Hmmm not sure about the shifting out of time, I'm yet to have this problem. Maybe try opening up a new session and recording yourself clapping as a simple test and see if it happens there. I've never had it happen to me. Unless of course you're cutting manually with the mouse then this could happen.

 

The sensitivity is a little high at the moment for this function, hopefully apple will adjust it in future versions, and SPEED it up too.

Remember that it will sense the transients of ALL the tracks in the current group of tracks, so if you only want it to sense the kick and snare then only have those tracks in your edit group. You will then need to switch to a different group to do the separation which is a pain in the backside.

[eggman]

Briefly, I'd just like to say cheers to David for taking the time to answer all of these posts and keeping it up over 4 pages. Good job, seriously

[johan]

While on this topic. Does anyone know why you can't use the Tab key as a key command anymore?

[johan]

Forget about it. Found the answer on apple discussion.

[davidpye]

Briefly, I'd just like to say cheers to David for taking the time to answer all of these posts and keeping it up over 4 pages. Good job, seriously

 

Not a problem, glad you have found some use for this process.

[michaelpaige]

sorry, wrong post.

[michaelpaige]

Put the tracks you want to edit in a folder temporarily.

Do the edits, then unpack the folder when you're done.

 

If you like Beat Detective, the you may like my other post about Multitrack Drum Quantizing on the tips and tricks forum.

 

Hey Dave great stuff, thanks so much for the help !! My issue is that when I group only the kick and snare tracks (to facilitate too much transient sensitivity with all the other tracks) and I marquee select all of my drum tracks, I still get Logic reading the transients for all of the tracks??? I've tried different combinations in group settings with region edit box checked and unchecked. Still I get either all transients being sensed or when I go to cut, only the kick and snare tracks get cut?? Am I missing something here?????? Thanks for any and all help you render!!!!!!!

[davidpye]

Hey, this is the functionality which unfortunately changed in 8.0.2, in 8.0.1 Splitting events by selection would make EVERY track in your arrangements split at the same point, which is when I wrote this workflow.

Now you have to group ALL the tracks you want to edit, which is incredibly annoying.

[michaelpaige]

Hey, this is the functionality which unfortunately changed in 8.0.2, in 8.0.1 Splitting events by selection would make EVERY track in your arrangements split at the same point, which is when I wrote this workflow.

Now you have to group ALL the tracks you want to edit, which is incredibly annoying.

 

AAAAAAArrrgghhhhhh! Thanks! who do we gotta sleep with there at Apple to keep things nice with Logic!!!!!

[grg1540]

so far so good but i cannot seem to get the apple\ shortcut to work for splitting the regions after i get to it with the shift right command.

i did group the 2 tracks i was trying to cut up.

 

any suggestions?

 

g

[davidpye]

Hit Alt(option)+K and check that your key command is set correctly.

 

Remember this is suggesting you select the entirety of the audio then move the leading edge at the front of the selection BACK each time you want to make a separation.

[grg1540]

for the suggestion. i'll check it out later today.

 

g

[kittygroove]

hi david, awesome post mate.

 

when i get me some more live tracks i will try this technique

 

best

 

 

sven

[colossicktom]

"Here I have all of the tracks grouped, but I've found you can get faster and more accurate results by just having say the close mics on the Kick and Snare grouped. That way Logic only senses transients from those sources, but still cuts ALL the audio at the selected points. "

 

 

 

Hi, I'm new to the forum and Logic and I'm trying to do this drum edit quantize function more efficiently...

 

HOW does Logic only sense transients from Kicks and Snare (in your example) but still cut all the drum tracks together??? I understand grouping, cutting, shifting back and forth in to place... but it takes so long and when I tried to do the process outlined in this feed, my computer takes a second to look at all the tracks for transients and I feel I can manually do this faster... but of course manually it takes me lots of long hours to do an entire song... someone HELP!!

 

-Thanks

 

Apple MBP 2.2

Logic 8.0.2

4GB RAM

[davidpye]

Unfortunately since 8.0.2 this no longer works as I first described. Now the tracks MUST be grouped so making the process slower. Before 8.0.2 the act of cutting would be applied to every region in the arrangement, which could be worked around by placing the tracks you wanted to cut in a folder. Now you can't do this.

[colossicktom]

Okay.. after 3 or 4 days of experimenting with all of these possibilities of cutting up and editing audio tracks I can officially say that I can't get any of these methods to work properly, and I've had to resort back to just manually cutting every transient and taking the time (long time) to go through every cut and get a proper cross-fade placed.

 

I did the cutting and quantizing method where you use the beat mapper, and that was a disaster! I've tried this 3 times now and followed the directions to every last detail, and when I have to pick the beats from regions, I get tempo errors every time for too fast or too slow. This whole method seems a little too difficult for what its worth... and if you have fast drums (metal) I think its hopeless unless someone can shed some light on it for me....

 

So, the other method of "tab to transient" like operation... I have to push the right arrow key a million times to actually get the marque to reach the front of a transient... and sometimes it passes right by the beginning of the wave and I'm like.. WTF?

 

SO>>>

 

Okay, I'm inexperienced and I'm latching on to every piece of new information I can get... Can someone please tell me how to accomplish the following......

 

I've got 9 audio drum tracks ranging from kicks, snare, toms, and overheads, and so forth, and I tried to use Elastic Time in Pro Tools 7.4 to correctly line up the drummer's rhythm (he's a decent time keeper.. I just want it perfect) and I found that although this seemed to be quick and flawless, it also seemed like it was warping out my cymbal audio files (stretching and squashing), and I decided that I'd like to just edit down audio a little more naturally by cutting and cross-fades. I got interested in Logic and so far I love it, but the one thing that is driving me crazy is spending so many long hours editing drum audio timing.

 

Does anyone have a faster more efficient way of chopping things up in Logic, and if no, what am I missing in the methods that have been listed already in these forums regarding this topic???? ALSO... what do the pro's do in this situation? What methods, programs, etc are people using to accomplish drum editing (timing) quickly????

 

Thanks

-colossicktom

[FlowerPower]

Here's how I do it (in Logic 8.02, on non-grouped tracks):

 

1) Place a thin marquee line (NB: not a wide selection, just one pixel) across all the tracks you want to edit.

 

2) Use the key command called "Set Marquee Start to Next Transient". The default key command is Shift + Right arrow.

 

Logic looks at all the marquee'd tracks for transients now.

 

3) When you have found the transient you want your edit at, press Delete (Backspace). This will divide the regions on all the marquee'd tracks in one operation.

 

Repeat 2 and 3 until you're done.

 

[Mariano215]

I tried this and here are several issues I ran into.

 

I used a multi track with some pauses in the kick and snare portion.

 

Issue 1:

Making these areas into a score was no problem. However, once I used "Beats from Region" on these I got an waning message:

 

"Setting this beat would have caused the corresponding tempo value being too high."

 

It subsequently CUT all tracks after the first pause (ie the tempo was in the 1,000's) so the resulting temp was every where from 0 to 990.

 

Issue 2:

When you cut on Beat 2 of Measure 1 to make all 1/4th cuts - all tracks must start at 0 and be in succession.

 

Just some things to look out for.

 

My only issue with Logic 8 is that Apple knew this to be a short coming in comparison to PT. For the money the new look and feel was not worth it. The small amount of new features seems minimal.

[FlowerPower]

However, once I used "Beats from Region" on these I got an waning message:

 

"Setting this beat would have caused the corresponding tempo value being too high."

In my experience - this message has always been 'correct', in that it suggests that what you are trying to do when you're beat mapping involves some erratic attempt of reclocking the material in a way that would result in an unrealistically high tempo/tempo change events too close to each other. With some trial and error, I'm sure you'll be able to remove a former beat mapping line or beat map another note to get the results you want.

 

 

When you cut on Beat 2 of Measure 1 to make all 1/4th cuts - all tracks must start at 0 and be in succession.

Not really - they must not start on bar 0 or bar 1, and must not in be in succession... they (the regions) must simply be selected. May I ask which Logic version are you using?

 

My only issue with Logic 8 is that Apple knew this to be a short coming in comparison to PT.

Maybe you compare Beat Mapping and Beat Detective here? These two features are not meant to do the same thing. Beat Mapping is an easy to use, graphical version of Pro Tools' Identify Beat, and not a suggested substitute for Beat Detective.

 

For the money the new look and feel was not worth it.

Fair enough, but there seem to be a broad agreement that for the money, nothing beats Logic. I can't think of any application of any kind who gives you as much as Logic does for $500.

 

 

On the other hand, everybody seem to agree that Logic needs something Beat Detective/Elastic Time like - and have been needing this for a long time.

[louismorgan]

Hey guys. Is this technique done after gating etc. I'm wondering becasue when I am editing the kick drum for example, transients from the spill of the kick mic are being picked up and is not making this process very easy. It is not just locating the individual sounds of the kick.

 

Any ideas on how I should work this or how to edit the track before quantizing to make this easier?

 

Thanks.

[Mariano215]

It's all in the settings of the audio to score.

[davidpye]

As Mariano said, but try putting the "Granulation" setting up a little, this should stop you getting triggers from the release of an instrument.

 

Watch the problem area as you alter the settings, this will give you a better idea of whats changing.

[Mariano215]

If you want to provide an MP3 to download I'd be willing to play with it and let you know what settings worked for me.

 

If there is too much bleed you may want to re-cut with different mic placement.

 

I've found over the years that cutting is the most important part of the mix and makes everything thereafter that much easier if done right.

[louismorgan]

cool. cheers guys. but i wasnt talkin about the technique using beat mapping just the transient detection tool eg shift + arrow button. its here when loads of the transients are being picked up and making this method difficult. im guessin that if the bleed was cut out by gating or using silence then this wud make this alot easier?

 

Thanks.

[Mariano215]

I guess one could argue that the transient detection tool was actually doing a good job!

 

I've not seen the file but I would imagine that if there is a lot of bleed the detection tool would also pick up those hits as transients. One of the reasons using the other method is much faster and more accurate in my experience.

 

I'm not sure about others but since the digital age I don't EQ, Compress or Gate anything on the way in. Micing live drums to minimize bleed yet get great tone is difficult but a valuable skill - which opens up a great new topic.

 

So the short answer is - the more pure the tone capture without bleed the easier the transient detection tool becomes.

[davidpye]

In theory what you could do would be gate your drum tracks heavily, then bounce them, reimport them and put them back in sync with your original kit recording, then use them as triggers for the cutting up of the other tracks.

 

Unfortunately, since apple changed the way the cutting command is effected by your groups you can't do this. If you're on 8.0 or 8.0.1 it'll work, but you can't do that since 8.0.2. I did mention this earlier in the thread but I understand if you didn't read it as there's plenty said here now.

[Ted]

I find the group clutch way to be fast once you practice it for about 5 minutes. Group all the tracks that will be cut and use the group clutch(Command-G) and Split(Command-\). Click on the track you want to first use with the Marquee Tool. After you hit your first transient HOLD COMMAND and while HOLDING it quickly hit "G", "\", "G"....and than move to the next transient. I will do all my kicks and than all my snares and it works very well. Just remember to SAVE quite a bit.