Turn Vocal Sample into Held Note

[thedodus]

Hey all:

 

Apologies if this has been covered before but I tried every kind of search I could think of!

 

I'm working with a vocal sample where the singer says the word "you're" and I want to take the sample mid "O" and stretch it into an 8-bar held note (so I can gate it, pitch it, etc.)

 

I've tried putting the sample in EXS24 and Battery, and setting a very short repeating loop over the vowel I want, but it doesn't seem to be the right solution as there's still very much an obvious looping effect--I just want it to sound like the note is being held.

 

Is there any way to do this in Logic, or are there any third-party plugins that specialize in this kind of thing?

[DaniGordon]

Take a look at melodyne

[sensibubble]

this may be helpful ...

 

http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Keymap_One_1.5.html

[thedodus]

danigordon:

 

So am I right in assuming that there are 3rd party plug-ins that can handle that task, and it's not just me trying to do something that can't be done (the sample is too short, not constant enough, etc.)? I just want to make sure that it's a Logic problem and not a thedodus problem before I splurge on more software!

 

sensibubble:

 

That program looks pretty sweet! I couldn't find any link to buy it though...is it not yet available?

[DaniGordon]

Well, I think you can try doing something in the EXS editor, but Melodyne (stand alone or the plug-in) is fantastic.

Doing this in Melodyne is like doing it in a MIDI note in the Piano Roll.

 

Try the Melodyne demo and you'll be amazed.

 

Some people don't like the sound or the results.

 

I think it is a phenomenal piece software.

[thedodus]

Well if it's as simple as that, let me at it!

 

Thanks for the advice man!

[shivermetimbers]

I have played around with the freeze function in one of the delay units and lost about 2 hours of my life because I was fascinated by what could be done with such a simple tool.

 

Melodyne rules. Also give the Ableton live demo a try.

[Larry Mal]

This is also within the purview of Pro Tools Elastic Time.

[thedodus]

You guys rule. Thanks for all the heads up.

 

"lost about 2 hours of my life"

 

Sounds like you have the same problem I do. Ah well, I can't say no to new plug-ins.

[ski]

You can create the effect you want without any obvious looping and retain the vocal sound of that "o" just with EXS-24. The technique is called 'single cycle looping". As the name implies, the technique involves looping a single cycle of the waveform in the vicinity of that "o" sound. If you get the loop just right it will sound like the "o" but static and synthy. You can always dial in some chorusing to it to give it a little more life.

 

If the loop you get is perfect (no harsh buzzes) but ends up being a little out of tune, use the loop tune parameter in the EXS zone to get it in tune.

 

KeyMap excels at doing single cycle looping, but you really don't need to buy that software just for this one effect, as you can do it all within EXS.

 

So maybe that'll work for you.

[thedodus]

You can create the effect you want without any obvious looping and retain the vocal sound of that "o" just with EXS-24. The technique is called 'single cycle looping". As the name implies, the technique involves looping a single cycle of the waveform in the vicinity of that "o" sound. If you get the loop just right it will sound like the "o" but static and synthy. You can always dial in some chorusing to it to give it a little more life.

 

If the loop you get is perfect (no harsh buzzes) but ends up being a little out of tune, use the loop tune parameter in the EXS zone to get it in tune.

 

KeyMap excels at doing single cycle looping, but you really don't need to buy that software just for this one effect, as you can do it all within EXS.

 

So maybe that'll work for you.

 

No kidding? A single cycle as in: the sine wave breaks zero, goes up, breaks zero, comes down, and at the next zero break I cut the loop? Is there any way to tell where that's occurring via EXS24, or do I just need to memorize the sample numbers in the sample editor and type those into the exs? Or am I totally getting it wrong?

 

I've been doing something close, but haven't had the balls to reduce it down to just one cycle. I'll give that a shot, and try adding the chorus and such as well, maybe that was the problem. Anyway, let me know, and I'll post back w/results.

 

Thanks!

[ski]

Easiest way to do this is to click "edit" on EXS and enable looping in the zone. Then 2-click on the name of the sample and a sample editor will open up. Drag the start and end loop points to a place in the sample where that "o" sound is. Then zoom waaaaaay in and, just as you described, set the loop start and end so that they surround a single cycle of the waveform. It may take a little trial and error to find the right cycle, but you should be able to get it.

 

Another way to do it (though I haven't tried it) is to enable looping in that zone, then open the sample editor. Zoom in to the area you want to loop and click/drag to select a cycle. Then use the key command: "selection --> sample loop". I think that will give you more immediate results.

 

If a single cycle doesn't seem to work, try a 2-cycle loop.

[thedodus]

That was it! Brilliant! Thank you so much!

[jonkuzma]

Hi..Also of interest..Time Freeze... http://www.timefreezer.net/index.html ..Well worth checking out...JON

[JoeAMP]

I use the loop function on my Akai S1000 sampler, never let me down yet!

[ski]

That was it! Brilliant! Thank you so much!

 

You're welcome!

 

There are additional tricks you can do now that you have the single-cycle loop thing happening... For example, if you put the EXS into legato mode, you can play melodic lines with the sample, particularly the looped sound. If you throw a little bit of portamento (glide) on it you can achieve some very autotune-like effects, played in real time.

[thedodus]

That was it! Brilliant! Thank you so much!

 

You're welcome!

 

There are additional tricks you can do now that you have the single-cycle loop thing happening... For example, if you put the EXS into legato mode, you can play melodic lines with the sample, particularly the looped sound. If you throw a little bit of portamento (glide) on it you can achieve some very autotune-like effects, played in real time.

 

Nice. Just these couple pieces of information from you about how you can use the EXS24 have really helped me get to an entirely new level of functionality working with audio files! Super awesome of you, I'm eternally grateful.

[David Nahmani]

Actually ski and I did this together once to emulate the Pink Floyd's "Pig" effect (voice turning into a synth sound). It works great with just the EXS24, the trick is to:

 

• Find the right single cycle to loop

• Adjust the tuning of the loop if necessary (it seems to be flat most of the time)

• Add a little vibrato (just push the modulation wheel up on your MIDI keyboard) --> this helps make the transition smoother.

 

Good luck, it's a great and fun effect!

[ski]

How soon we forget... yes indeed we did create that effect as part of the Analog Synth seminar I gave recently (under David's aegis of course!)

 

And to thedodus, you're most welcome! The single cycle loop trick, plus the whole notion that you can play vocal samples in legato mode and play with the pitch of the sung phrase is something I did waaaaaaaay back in the day when I was working with Latin club artist Sa-fire (on a track called "Boy I've Been Told"). At that time it was only possible to do those kinds of effects on the Synclavier (which is what I did them on). Anyway, hope you find some cool creative uses for these trix!

[thedodus]

How soon we forget... yes indeed we did create that effect as part of the Analog Synth seminar I gave recently (under David's aegis of course!)

 

And to thedodus, you're most welcome! The single cycle loop trick, plus the whole notion that you can play vocal samples in legato mode and play with the pitch of the sung phrase is something I did waaaaaaaay back in the day when I was working with Latin club artist Sa-fire (on a track called "Boy I've Been Told"). At that time it was only possible to do those kinds of effects on the Synclavier (which is what I did them on). Anyway, hope you find some cool creative uses for these trix!

 

OK...this brings up a pretty green question, but I'm having trouble deciphering what exactly "legato" settings do on synths. Nothing I can use in the Logic manual. I'm assuming it has something to do with note changes and event start/stops in the Piano Roll...but how is it different from Mono?

[jonkuzma]

Hi..OK..I will over simplify it...If you were to sing Baahh....Then held the AAHH...And then altered the pitch...You would be singing in a legato way...

 

If however you were to sing each pitch using Baahh...Then you would be doing the same as re-triggering on a synth...Rather simple explanation I know...

 

With synths and samplers mono timbres offer either re-trigger or legato mode...Basically it means the next note played (if the first hasn't been released) Will sound without the Attack transient of the ADSR envelope...If there is not a degree of level,or no sustain point at all in the amplifiers ADSR then eventually the sound will decay to zero volume...If the sustain is on and attenuated enough..Then the notes will be held at that level when played...But you have to play the next note while holding the first or previous note for legato to be available...

 

Also the filter envelope is part of the equation...If the filters envelope is set to close down all frequencies after a time them it will null and void the sound being heard even if the amps envelope is set with the sustain at full...

 

That is a simplified explanation...Due to the fact that there are now quite a few softsynths with multi stage envelopes..But I hope I didn't confuse you and that perhaps my explanation made some sense...JON

[ski]

Mono and legato are two different but related things.

 

There, that helps, doesn't it? LOL!!

 

OK, Mono (monophonic) means that the synth will only produce one note (or one "voice"). This is true even if you play a chord. (As an aside, programming logic within the synth plug will determine which note of the chord is sounded. Generally, the note you'll hear will be the last note that the synth detects, and that's called "last note priority").

 

Anyway, when a synth is in Mono and you play a smooth legato line, every note you play will re-trigger the envelopes. Try it on a sharp synth bass sound and you'll see. Every note attacks even if you play legato.

 

Now, Legato Mode is a variation on Mono Mode. It causes the synth to play monophonically as before, but it prevents the envelopes from re-triggering when you play legato. (This is also called "single triggering").

 

Say you had a synth bass sound that had a long neeeeeeeooooowwwww kind of filter sweep (created by a filter envelope (EG) with a long decay). When you play a scale in Legato Mode you'll hear the notes change "under" the neeeeeeeoooooowwwwww. Here, the EG triggers with the first note you play. It won't trigger again as long as you play legato. However, the pitch of the oscillators still change while you play.

 

Now, with samples, the oscillator playback is affected by the choice of Mono and Legato too. OK, let's say you had a vocal phrase, "Yeeeeeeaaaaaahhhh", really long, singing one note. In Poly mode you could play chords with that sound. In Mono mode you could only play one note, and if you played with a legato touch, every new note would re-attack the sample ("yeeeeah, yeeeeah, yeeeah"). In Legato Mode, playing the first note would of course sound the sample; but if you continue to play legato, the pitch of the sample will change as the sample plays out. So in this example -- a long "yeeeeahhh" sung on one note -- you could change the pitch over the course of the sung "Yeeeeeeeaaaahhhh", very much like "playing" autotune.

 

HTH.

[ski]

And BTW, changing these settings on a synth/sampler plug does not have any effect on the way the notes are recorded or how they appear in the piano roll. The recorded notes are the recorded notes. The way the synth/sampler responds to those notes will be affected by your choice of poly, mono, or legato.

[thedodus]

Well, you guys definitely cleared that up! Makes perfect sense.