rainguitar Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Hi, I'm thinking of making some changes to my system but I've made some costly mistakes in the past so... I thought I share what I have in mind in case those of you with more experience (almost everybody) might want to talk some sense into me. My current set-up is as follows: Intel iMac 1.83 with 2 gigs ram, 250 GB hard drive and a Lacie 500 mb usb external drive for backup only. Audio interface: Edirol FA-66. External synth/keyboard controller: Roland XP-30 with Bass & Drum + Keyboards of the 60s and 70s installed. Software: Logic Pro 8 with some 3rd party pluggins and instruments. What I do: Mainly singer/song writer stuff. Tend to keep recordings simple. The problem: Not too happy with the FA-66. I find the preamps a bit thin. Also with only 2 gigs of ram some of the channel strip settings are pushing my cpu. What I'm thinking of doing option one: Replacing the FA-66 with an Apogee Duet. replacing the XP-30 with good keyboard controllerand just using the Logic 8 sound library, replacing my current computer with a faster iMac that will take 4 gigs of ram and has a larger HD. Option 2: Keep the current computer. Replace the FA-66 with an Mackie Onyx 400 f to get better preamps and the midi interface and line ins that the Apogee duet lacks. Lean more on the XP-30 sounds to reduce the CPU draw. Buy some better mics with money saved. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Option 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Tomasi Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Based on those two options I would go with #1 in a heartbeat. The Duet alone would be enough reason. Not sure I follow what you're saying about the Mackie having better preamps however. Ah, the XP's. Had an XP-50. My very first foray into sequencing. Never could figure that darn thing out. Seriously though, ditch the Roland and the Edirol interface. The Logic library and Duet with an upgraded Mac will be a perfectly nice little setup. You really only need two in's anyway for just you, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spunkadellic Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 get the duet keep the roland - the xp 30 is a really cool keyboard - thousands of sounds you can use the sounds on it or use it as a controller for logics sounds xp 30 = good sounds - terrible layout - and the manual is a joke!!!!! if you dont have a midi interface, a 2 channel one is pretty inexpensive -eventually put some money into a good pre amp - the thin sound has a lot to do with the mic pres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holger Lagerfeldt Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 The problem: Not too happy with the FA-66. I find the preamps a bit thin. Take a look at the Great River ME-1NV, fairly cheap and one of the best preamps around to fatten up the sound without being mushy. http://mercenary.com/greatrivmp1.html What mic do you have? One of the best yet cheapest mics at the moment is the sE Electronics Titan (used to be $2.500 is now dumped to about $700 to clear out stocks). I bet this will make a bigger difference than your sound card, although I would encourage you to get an Apogee Duet too. Get rid of the XP and get a 61 key USB keyboard. As for CPU power, are you using effects correctly? Using busses for reverbs and delays? When you can afford it upgrade your iMac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainguitar Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 Hi Folks, Thanks for the great advise. I'm not saying that the Mackie pre amps are better than the Apogee Duet but they are definately better that the FA-66 and a rack space unit would work better in my set up than a desktop. The XP-30 has better basses (with the bass & drum card) that what's included with Logic although the logic instruments are more tweekable. I also like the orchestral card over the equivalent in Logic but I don't use that stuff a lot. But the constant raves I keep hearing about the Apogee Duet are winning me over so I'll probably go with that and a controller and add a computer as I can afford it. I might wait a year or so for Apple to come out with an iMac that will take 8 gigs of ram. Thanks again Rainguitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noperator Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 If some channel strips are pushing your cpu, you can save cpu at the expense of latency & RAM by upping the i/o buffer size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Don't record into your iMac drive. Use an external and don't use USB. Either FW400 or FW800. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malgfunk Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Whatever you do, keep the XP-30 just for the "Bass and Drums" card sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainguitar Posted March 7, 2008 Author Share Posted March 7, 2008 I am curious about one thing, no one commented on the Mackie Onyx 400 f. The reviews I've read have been pretty good but it doesn't seem to be that popular. Is this just because its been around for awhile an is kind of old school? Is it too pricy? Does it not work well with Logic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcel72 Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 IMHO, Mackie Designs are incapable of making a good preamp. Not to mention their awful 'mix bus' designs (basically high-pass filters) and their inscrutable approach to 'unity gain'... Maybe a good soundcard and a good single or dual channel preamp (FMR RNP, Groove Tubes Brick, and Great River ME1-NV would be a price range of choices) would serve you better. And apparently you can do something software-wise to get the Duet to accept line-level signals thru its XLR ins, although I can't comment on quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashermusic Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 IMHO, Mackie Designs are incapable of making a good preamp. Not to mention their awful 'mix bus' designs (basically high-pass filters) and their inscrutable approach to 'unity gain'... Maybe a good soundcard and a good single or dual channel preamp (FMR RNP, Groove Tubes Brick, and Great River ME1-NV would be a price range of choices) would serve you better. And apparently you can do something software-wise to get the Duet to accept line-level signals thru its XLR ins, although I can't comment on quality. I disagree. The Mackie Onyx mic-pres , while they do not have "mojo", are very clean, transparent, and usable. I would get the standalone unit rather than the mixer if you are going to go that route, personally. Why go through the extra electronics? But the Duets mic-pres are also excellent. just fewer of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashermusic Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Also, the "no frills" steal of mic-pres is still the Rane MS1b, as Roger Nichols has attested to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litesnsirens Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 I have the Mackie 400F and it is awesome... these mice pres sound great ... no question... they really got it right when they came out with the ONYX pres.. also the headphone amps sound amazing too for monitoring... crystal clear unit... and really I prefer and uncoloured sound going to print... in this day and age of plugs it's best to go as clean as possible ... then if at the end of the mix you want to add some colour with a plug you aren't starting from an already coloured track... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YamahaDM2000 Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 I never knew Lacie made 500MB external drives....hehehehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainguitar Posted March 8, 2008 Author Share Posted March 8, 2008 Hi Again, I have another technical question related to what we're talking about here. The Rane MS1b is a single mic preamp but obviously its not an audio interface so it must go through some kind of interface to be recorded in Logic. So what happens if I plug my mic into the Rane MS1b and then the Rane MS1b out into my Edirol FA-66? Does the FA-66 preamp dumb down the sound of Rane preamp? Because if it doesn't then it sure seems to me to be a cost-effective way of adding a good mic preamp. The FA-66 is fine for midi, guitar direct recording and line-in recording. Its the mic pres that I'm not fussy about. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litesnsirens Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 If you are happy with the A/D D/A converters in the Edirol and the sound through the line-ins, then going from the output of the Rane to the line-in of the Edirol should be satisfactory for you.... only one way to find out though ... get busy ...LOL But seriously if you by-pass the mic pres on the Edirol and go str8 to the line in (if they are indeed separate - not familiar with that unit) you should in essence be by-passing the circuits that are adding the colour you don't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainguitar Posted March 9, 2008 Author Share Posted March 9, 2008 Ok, but the line ins on the FA-66 are not ballanced and the outs on the Rane are. I'll have to use a converter. Will that do anything to the sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainguitar Posted March 9, 2008 Author Share Posted March 9, 2008 I'll also forgot to answer a question posed by Lagerfeldt earlier. I have two mics at the moment, an AKG 535 EB which I use mainly for vocals and occasionally for acoustic guitar and an SM57 for when I feel the need to mic my guitar amp. I planning to add a pair of Rode C3s in the near future. I am hampered by a poor studio space, basically my very-cluttered bedroom, which unfortunately sits right beside our laundry room and furnace. My mic choices took this into account but also where made due to their usefulness in live applications. The AKG just blows away an SM58 live and is OK in the studio, not picking up too much of the room and extra noise while giving me a fairly warm and transparent vocal. So far I've avoided getting a really good large diaphram studio mic simply because such an animal is likely to pickup a lot more of the room's problems. I've also noticed that the AKG sounds better through mackie board than it does through a the FA-66, one of the reasons I'm considering the Onyx 400 f. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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