Performing Logic Projects Live

[benmiron]

Hey all,

 

 

I am looking to take the projects my band has been working on to a live performance.

 

 

Basicly what I am interested in is how to easily loop certain parts of the performance... IE certain sections of a song.

 

I am going to cut a few of the tracks for the live performance and play them live over the more ambient less focal backing tracks.

 

What do you guys suggest for taking this to the stage?

 

 

My band is comprised of 2-3 instrumentalists. a drummer and a drum machine...

 

Is there a way to sync the drum beats to the loops using some sort of trigger? or should the drummers work to match the loops.

 

 

Also what is the best way to set up the looping so that I can have each segment coming in and out and have control over them.

 

I know that abelton live is the standard for performance but all my projects are in logic... do you suggest learning live and trying to migrate my material?

 

I dont know how to use ableton live yet so is it worth learning/ migrating. Also do you all suggest that I record my midi regions as audio for this idea?

 

 

Any help in performing logic projects live would be really helpful.

[benmiron]

I want to use some of the tracks to accompany my live tracks if I didnt make that clear.

 

Also these projects take a while to load for me ... how do you set up a set of music that being said... do you load them all and minimize?

 

 

I feel like there should be a good way built in. If pro's like NIN use this to record how do they migrate it to the stage?

 

 

My band has these awesome dance songs but we want to do them live and I cant figure it out.

 

 

Do I need any special extra equipment? All I have currently is a macbook pro and a midi keyboard(axiom 49).

 

 

Whats the next purchase? Should I be running my audio out through my mac headphone jack or is there something I should buy for that as well?

 

 

I also have an Alesis multimix 12 track firewire mixer and a Roland Handsonic that we use for drum and percussion sounds.

 

http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=199&ParentId=61

[benmiron]

must make my band awesome ... helllpppp

[ringemaster]

Hey bud,

 

My band just started using Logic to play backing tracks at our shows.

 

First:

To help with the loading process, check out OnStage:

 

http://www.fluqe.com/

 

It automates the close/open process and it takes like 4 or 5 seconds for us to go from one song to the next.

 

Second:

You need an audio interface. I'd suggest a firewire interface. Send the headphone output to the drummer so he can have a click in his/her ear. Then, send a separate output to the house.

 

Your drummer should play to a click to stay in time with the loops.

 

Third:

Is there a way to not loop stuff live and just pre-arrange the entire song? I'm not sure how to turn looping on/off (I don't think you can do this without being at the computer and clicking on certain sections). We just play through the whole song

 

My drummer uses a footswitch to start/stop the sessions.

 

Last:

Practice A TON before you go live. The last thing you want is to have something go wrong live.

 

Good luck. Feel free to PM if you have more questions, but its a lot of trial and error.

[fretnoise]

This may be heretical to bring up on this forum. BUT...you might want to check out the program 'Live' for what your trying to do. I love Logic and I use it constantly for recording and producing. But for what your trying to do, 'Live' is specifically designed for that application. It's also a really cool program but serves a different purpose and might work for your needs.

[benmiron]

ringemaster that helps thank you... I will be in touch with you for sure.

 

 

For the benefit of those who read this. I will post some questions here I appreciate the help.

 

 

how do you set up a foot switch to start and stop the sessions?

 

 

How do you send a click to your drummer without sending it to the other outputs or without him hearing the music.

 

I have my loops pre arranged but one of the ideas is to have sections elongated live. so perhaps we could loop a section till we are ready to move on... and one person can enable and release a loop. Any input on how to do that best?

 

 

 

To fretnoise I have been considering using Live. I really want to learn it, I know that is the better performance software.

 

My problem is I have no idea how to export the samples and put them in live. I think I am going to spend this weekend to learn it a bit.

 

 

I just need to figure out how to best get my samples in there. I guess I could bounce them individually but I was hoping there was an easier way...

 

 

Lets keep this alive this is important info. Im sure it will help other people

[dcrigger]

 

How do you send a click to your drummer without sending it to the other outputs or without him hearing the music.

 

If you want to send a stereo output to the house, then you need a multi-channel audio interface, so you can say, assign the stereo mix that the band and audience with hear and then use another output (or pair of outputs) (driven from sends on the track mixer) to feed a different mix that includes the click for the drummer - or anyone else in the band who can wear headphones (or earbuds) that need to hear the click

 

If you don't have an interface and you can live with only a mono mix in the house, then you could get by with panning everything you want the band/audience to hear to the left and the click to the right. Send the left mono signal to the mixer and the right mono signal to the drummer.

 

I have my loops pre arranged but one of the ideas is to have sections elongated live. so perhaps we could loop a section till we are ready to move on... and one person can enable and release a loop. Any input on how to do that best?

 

I don't no of any way of having a flexible, expandable arrangement in Logic - one where you can loop for a while on a section then proceed to the next section on cue. I just don't believe it is possible - hopefully someone will chime in that I'm wrong.

 

Live really seems the ONLY choice available that offers that function.

[shivermetimbers]

Make the Drummer follow Logic (I won't get into drummer jokes) Send the click track to the drummer using the left channel and feed the backing tracks out thru the right. The Left channel should be panned hard left and the Right channel can be panned either center or hard right (anything in between). Any stereo audio/midi interface will do.

 

Use Markers for loop points and assign them to your controller via Key commands.

 

Save your songs as a project (don't copy any sample sounds, just the audio tracks).

 

OnStage is useful to create and open playlists.

 

It's all pretty much straight forward once you get the hang of it.

[Janne]

Hi

 

you can do it like in ableton by creating touch tracks.Its a little longer way to prepare the stuff but works great when you do

 

Check this link out:http://sonikmatter.com/wiki/Logic:Tutorial-_Creating_TouchTracks

 

 

regards

[benmiron]

Great help guys.

 

"Use Markers for loop points and assign them to your controller via Key commands. "

How do you use this? so lets say you have a marker on the begining of each section. You use this to move from one to the next? Can you just explain briefly how you use this trick?

 

 

 

"Save your songs as a project (don't copy any sample sounds, just the audio tracks). "

 

 

What does that mean?

[Janne]

"Use Markers for loop points and assign them to your controller via Key commands. "

How do you use this? so lets say you have a marker on the begining of each section. You use this to move from one to the next? Can you just explain briefly how you use this trick?

 

 

 

you can do this in the environment where you have a gotomarker control

 

in the environment window new/fader/special/gotomarker

its in the shape of fader by default so when you move it changel the number of the marker.

 

look a this post by Dave http://logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=715

[shivermetimbers]

Normally, I would insist that you read the manual because it is all in there. However, I find myself rereading things now that I read back then which never sank in until discovered them on my own.

 

So please read the manual (look up Markers and Project folders).

 

Markers. Lets say your Part 1 (verse) of a song starts at measure 5 and ends at measure 21. Part 2 (chorus) Starts at measure 22 and ends at measure 29.

 

Place a Marker (Marker1) at measure 5.

Place another Marker (Marker 2) at measure 22.

 

These markers are already preassigned in your key commands but can also be co-assigned as a MIDI command.

Go into the Key command screen and search for Marker. You will see a list of goto marker commands. Select the ones you need and 'learn' them to a controller of your choice (i.e. midi keyboard note, midi controller button, or Comp keyboard is already assigned).

 

When you start the song via a foot pedal or a keyboard note or etc. anytime you want to jump directly to part 1, simple press the controller key assigned to Marker 1. The process is the same for the rest of the song and Markers.

 

Saving the song as a project will put everything you use in the song in a folder location that you create. There is no point in saving and storing things that already exist such as instrument .wav files and whatever, because it wastes memory and takes longer to load songs.

 

Set up a dummy song to experiment with using markers and saving it to a folder. Have fun and don't be in such a rush until you understand this stuff.

[dcrigger]

But doesn't this suggested "Go To Marker" method kind of work on the principle of "press the key command a little before the downbeat, and then hope what happens after that is somewhat close to the on going beat of the song"

 

Though I could see pressing this into service, I think I would also find it hair-raising, scary and somewhat unreliable.

 

Kind of a far cry from the functionality of Live's choices: pressing "the button" within the bar before the jump; within the beat before the jump; or jumping _right_ on the button/pedal press.

[Janne]

 

But doesn't this suggested "Go To Marker" method kind of work on the principle of "press the key command a little before the downbeat, and then hope what happens after that is somewhat close to the on going beat of the song"

 

Though I could see pressing this into service, I think I would also find it hair-raising, scary and somewhat unreliable.

 

Kind of a far cry from the functionality of Live's choices: pressing "the button" within the bar before the jump; within the beat before the jump; or jumping _right_ on the button/pe

 

 

 

 

 

Hi

 

the action that can be matched to the Lives is with Touch tracks where you can set the Global quantize of the triggered loops.

 

regards

[dcrigger]

 

But doesn't this suggested "Go To Marker" method kind of work on the principle of "press the key command a little before the downbeat, and then hope what happens after that is somewhat close to the on going beat of the song"

 

Though I could see pressing this into service, I think I would also find it hair-raising, scary and somewhat unreliable.

 

Kind of a far cry from the functionality of Live's choices: pressing "the button" within the bar before the jump; within the beat before the jump; or jumping _right_ on the button/pe

 

 

 

 

 

Hi

 

the action that can be matched to the Lives is with Touch tracks where you can set the Global quantize of the triggered loops.

 

regards

 

Janne - Wow, I'm sorry I completely missed your earlier post suggesting this. Touch Tracks - that looks very exciting - I'll be checking that out more throughly.

 

Thanks

[shivermetimbers]

But doesn't this suggested "Go To Marker" method kind of work on the principle of "press the key command a little before the downbeat, and then hope what happens after that is somewhat close to the on going beat of the song"

 

Though I could see pressing this into service, I think I would also find it hair-raising, scary and somewhat unreliable.

 

Kind of a far cry from the functionality of Live's choices: pressing "the button" within the bar before the jump; within the beat before the jump; or jumping _right_ on the button/pedal press.

 

The marker method has a slight delay (silence) no matter how quick you are at pressing the controller. Live is thru the environment which means it is Midi oriented (what happens to the audio?).

 

I use a real Looper (RC-50) to do all that. As Tony the Tiger once said: They're GRRRRRRRRREAT!!!

[dcrigger]

But doesn't this suggested "Go To Marker" method kind of work on the principle of "press the key command a little before the downbeat, and then hope what happens after that is somewhat close to the on going beat of the song"

 

Though I could see pressing this into service, I think I would also find it hair-raising, scary and somewhat unreliable.

 

Kind of a far cry from the functionality of Live's choices: pressing "the button" within the bar before the jump; within the beat before the jump; or jumping _right_ on the button/pedal press.

 

The marker method has a slight delay (silence) no matter how quick you are at pressing the controller. Live is thru the environment which means it is Midi oriented (what happens to the audio?).

 

I assume you mean "Touch Tracks" works through the environment, right? And a glance at the manual is pretty clear that it is for controlling "MIDI regions and folders". So it would appear, while maybe good for many applications, Touch Tracks are a far cry from the real time manipulations of BOTH MIDI and audio that Live offers.

 

I use a real Looper (RC-50) to do all that. As Tony the Tiger once said: They're GRRRRRRRRREAT!!!

 

They are. But I would think more geared to those creating loops on the fly, than for having an entire set of songs with multiple sections in each - sections of widely varying lengths - all cue-able and layer-able "on the fly" that the want to play along with - and again, not loop to on-the-fly. All great tools - but the best tool for the job that benmiron describes stills seems to me to be Live.

[Janne]

I assume you mean "Touch Tracks" works through the environment, right? And a glance at the manual is pretty clear that it is for controlling "MIDI regions and folders". So it would appear, while maybe good for many applications, Touch Tracks are a far cry from the real time manipulations of BOTH MIDI and audio that Live offers.

 

Quote:

 

I use a real Looper (RC-50) to do all that. As Tony the Tiger once said: They're GRRRRRRRRREAT!!!

 

 

They are. But I would think more geared to those creating loops on the fly, than for having an entire set of songs with multiple sections in each - sections of widely varying lengths - all cue-able and layer-able "on the fly" that the want to play along with - and again, not loop to on-the-fly. All great tools - but the best tool for the job that benmiron describes stills seems to me to be Live.

 

 

 

Yes it works through environment and it triggers MIDI clips

I put all of my audio loops in EXS and the Midi clips trigger the notes on which audio loops are

 

If you want to do things on the fly Live is still the most elegant app

But I find Logic much more stable

 

regards

[Janne]

Yes it works through environment and it triggers MIDI clips

I put all of my audio loops in EXS and the Midi clips trigger the notes on which audio loops are

 

If you want to do things on the fly Live is still the most elegant app

But I find Logic much more stable

 

regards

[David Nahmani]

I'm sorry I just read this thread...

 

What I would do is setup markers, and make sure you open the marker list and clean it up: all the markers should have the correct length of the section they correspond to (so if a section is 16 bars, the marker length should be "16 0 0 0", not "0 0 0 1" as it can be sometimes, depending on how you create your markers.

 

Then organize the Logic project with the sections in order.

 

Turn on Cycle mode.

 

Use Command-Right arrow to move to the next marker. The playhead will continue playing the current section until the end, and go on into the next section, looping it until you press Command-Right arrow again...

 

This is, however, limited to playing the sections in one order, from left to right. You can't go back to a previous section with this technique. So it will only work if the order of the sections is predetermined, but the number of looping for each section needs to be controlled live.

 

BTW you can then assign any MIDI controller (drum pad or keyboard) to move the cycle, rather than Command-Right arrow.

[dcrigger]

Thanks David. So that means you would have a pre-determined arrangement that includes audio and midi, that could still include sections that are "open" or "on cue". That's great.

[David Nahmani]

Thanks David. So that means you would have a pre-determined arrangement that includes audio and midi, that could still include sections that are "open" or "on cue". That's great.

 

Yeah pretty much: when you press play it keeps looping marker 1, then when you hit your controller it finishes playing whatever's left of marker 1 and then loops marker 2 until you hit the controller.... etc.

 

There's no hiccups, no silence, just smooth playback.

[benmiron]

you guys have been a great help. I think a lot of people can benefit from a thread about performing live as I couldn't find any like it.

 

 

My band has practice on sunday and I will report back after setting up my projects to function this way... using markers and such.

 

 

Thanks again.

 

 

I also bought the book that you wrote david so cheers to that.

[Gizmo]

Yes it works through environment and it triggers MIDI clips

I put all of my audio loops in EXS and the Midi clips trigger the notes on which audio loops are

 

If you want to do things on the fly Live is still the most elegant app

But I find Logic much more stable

 

regards

 

I'm using a Roland footpedal controller to control touch tracks in Logic. It takes a bit of setting up and there are quite a few "gotcha's" but when it works it works quite well.

 

I'm using it to play backing tracks for my guitar and the ability to trigger on the bar/beat etc is very useful (probably essential) once you figure it out.

 

Now if only my brain could handle the extra workload

[benmiron]

gizmo are you saying you can trigget on beat? or are you saying that is something you have to figure out.

 

 

 

Can you explain how make a set up like you are describing work.

[benmiron]

"Turn on Cycle mode.

 

Use Command-Right arrow to move to the next marker. The playhead will continue playing the current section until the end, and go on into the next section, looping it until you press Command-Right arrow again... "

 

 

So wait to use what you are describing you need to make markers to span your sections right.

 

 

so lets say you have verse chorus verse... and you want those to repeat individually in the order they play until you release them.

 

So you make 3 markers to span those sections. Then you turn on cycle mode and press play.

 

 

 

??

 

 

Questions:

 

 

How do you get htose marked off sections to loop. do you draw a cycle over them... if so can you get that to happen automatically when the section starts?

 

when I turn on cycle mode it only seems to put a cycle over the section I draw out , the green one.

 

Can you explain this a bit more?

[Gizmo]

gizmo are you saying you can trigget on beat? or are you saying that is something you have to figure out.

 

 

 

Can you explain how make a set up like you are describing work.

 

Hi benmiron

You can trigger the next loop freely, on the beat, the bar or other times by settings in the touch track window. You can also trigger them to loop, gated single etc.

 

Just go to the environment and create a new touch track..play around with the settings and it will start to become clearer

 

This is what I read to get me started:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec04/articles/logicnotes.htm

or this

http://sonikmatter.com/wiki/Logic:Tutorial-_Creating_TouchTracks

and the manual page 908.

 

I found it a bit confusing at first but eventually manged to get it working.

[benmiron]

I think i figured out the answer to my own question thanks

[benmiron]

BUMP how do you attach a keypress to a button on a midi keyboard?

 

I cant figure out how to map it.

[zaklampert]

command-right doesn't work for me - it just changes the scale of the project. am I doing something wrong?

 

edit - it's option+cmd+right arrow...sorry for the two year bump.