darkecho Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Hello, when I set up a multi output instrument like Battery,I want the track called Battery in the arrange view to control all associated auxes solo/mute like a group, so that when I solo battery, I'm soloing the entire drumkit and not just the master stereo output (who uses that anyways? If you make it for cymbals, then your track for all of the drumkit is called cymbals- its just dumb). Is there a more organized way to use multioutput drum samplers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkecho Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 Can Anybody Help? Is there anything like a group track that I can employ like cubase has? I'd like to have a track in the arrange page that can solo/mute the entire Battery multi-out kit. Can I set something up in the environment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fader8 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Hey dark, Unfortunately, "solo" is not an included option in the track group settings in Logic, so it's necessary for you to set up an aux to send them all to. Just set the outputs of all those aux's for Battery to say, bus 20. Then create a new aux and set it's input to bus 20. Name it BatteryAll or something. This gives you a group fader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkecho Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 I don't like how, essentially, the instrument track (which I want to name 'Battery') and the aux for Battery's 1-2 output (which I want to name 'Cymbals'), are the sane track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkecho Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 How do you work with Multi Out Drum samplers? Do you just title output 1-2 whatever and have that be the name of the entire track on your arrange page? or do you waste that track and title it "Battery3" or something and not assign anything to it? Is there any sort of work around so that I can have an aux that uses 1-2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fader8 Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Is there any sort of work around so that I can have an aux that uses 1-2? Sure. Just assign the instrument track to a bus. Create a new aux channel and assign its input to that bus. Then name that aux "cymbal". I like to keep the Instrument track itself clear and just use it for automation. For example, assign automation points in battery for all the volumes for each cell you're using. Now you can auomate the level of each cell's level using the instrument track. So, say you have all your cymbals assigned to Battery Out 1-2. Your new aux becomes the master for all your cymbals, but you can automate their levels independently up on the instrument track. After creating a Multi-Instrument MIDI object in the environment and cabling it to the Battery Instrument object, I'll then create MIDI tracks that target the channels. So the Arrange looks like this: Inst track hosting Battery (automate all Battery param's) MIDI track for hihat MIDI track for ride MIDI track for crash Aux track for all cymbals I find this keeps things much more organized. I don't care for Logic 8's prescribed method of creating the "Multitimbral" Instrument because it's not conducive to patching in MIDI processing in the environment as easily. It's also a bit more straight forward if you want to control 24 cells with 24 tracks. But to each their own I guess. I set up Kontakt the same way too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred B Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Hi fader, that's quite an interesting/unusual configuration. Just one thing: on which track are the MIDI events for the cymbals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fader8 Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Just one thing: on which track are the MIDI events for the cymbals? Hi Fred, The events themselves are on the individual MIDI tracks. So in the example above, all 3 MIDI tracks are assigned to MIDI channel 1 of my "dummy" multi-instrument that's feeding Battery MIDI. In Battery, I've set all my cymbal cells to MIDI channel 1 as well. Then set their outputs to my cymbal "aux". I can still name the 3 MIDI tracks hat, ride and crash respectively, even though they point to the same object and MIDI channel. They just contain different notes. So there's no MIDI at all on the instrument track that's hosting Battery. I strictly use that to automate any Battery parameters I want. Of course, when I want to tweak a parameter, I have to leave the automation view in Battery open to cross reference the #'s, but it's not too difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred B Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 So there's no MIDI at all on the instrument track that's hosting Battery. I strictly use that to automate any Battery parameters I want. Thanks for clarifying. So it's clean and consistent. Nice solution I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkecho Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 Wait, so when you create those individual MIDI tracks that feed the dummy battery track, what sort of tracks are they? Are you creating Instrument tracks but just not putting a plugin on their inputs? How do you assign the to feed the "real" instrument track that has Battery pluged into it? and why do you want to have seperate MIDI tracks for all of the different cells in Battery? I kind of like having one big MIDI region with all of the different notes in the same region.. it kind of helps me visualize where certain drum hits are in comparison to others... Also, when you create the battery instrument track, are you checking the Multi-Trimbral checkbox? I always just made a non-multi-timbral instrument track and simply assigned a multi-out version of battery to it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fader8 Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Wait, so when you create those individual MIDI tracks that feed the dummy battery track, what sort of tracks are they? They are MIDI tracks, pure and simple. Or as Logic 8 now misnames them, "External MIDI" tracks. They point to a dummy multi-instrument object in the environment that is created for this purpose. That is then cabled to the single Instrument channel hosting Battery. and why do you want to have seperate MIDI tracks for all of the different cells in Battery? I kind of like having one big MIDI region with all of the different notes in the same region.. it kind of helps me visualize where certain drum hits are in comparison to others... Well, because that's the way I've always done it! You can still see all the data all at once if you like. Just shift-click all the regions and they all show up on the piano roll. The benefits are many. If it's a complex percussion arrangement, you can choose just to see the kick, snare and hat in the piano roll, or any combination. Also, independent quantize settings per voice, scale velocity for all the snare hits, etc. Also, when you create the battery instrument track, are you checking the Multi-Trimbral checkbox? No, but you you can do it that way if you like. I prefer to have the option to MIDI process just that track if I choose to. dark, these are workflow choices. There's no right or wrong way, just your way. Do what works best for you. If you'd like to pursue this method, I'd be happy to post a template for you to help you out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkecho Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 Fader, thanks for the responses, they have been extremely helpful. I wasn't trying to interrogate you on your method- I am just intensely curious about this topic. A template would be phenomenol!!!! I forgot about shift clicking, that makes a lot of sense. I like this concept the more I understand it. One thing, when you shift click MIDI regions, I have noticed sometimes that, in the piano roll, velocities dont show up for all of the notes (just a few). why is that? Thanks again Fader and Fred!!! P.S. I am asking a lot of these sorts of questions I guess because as you said, this is workflow stuff and I haven't had enough time to develop a workflow of my own! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fader8 Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 A template would be phenomenol!!!! No sweat. Why don't you let me know one of the standard Battery kits you like to use. I'll load that kit and build the template from it. OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkecho Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 I like the Steveland's Vinyl kit. It's got a lesser number of cells too which might make the template easier. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fader8 Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Here ya go dark. It was pretty simple to make a SteveLandVinyl template from a pop kit one I already had. I didn't include tracks for all cells, but you can add a few too. I included both templates for you. Battery_3_Templates_f8.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkecho Posted March 29, 2008 Author Share Posted March 29, 2008 Fantastic. I can't wait to pop these in. I am sure I'll have a clutch of new questions for you in a few hours =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkecho Posted March 29, 2008 Author Share Posted March 29, 2008 Alright, I digested the templates and here are my questions: 1.) I see that you have the Battery track outputting to a bus which is sent to a Kicks aux. Do you see any advantage to, instead of sending the output to a bus, sending the audio as a Send set to pre-fader so that we don't have to worry about two faders? I guess the little volume control for the send is no different than a fader.. Any reason you wouldnt do this? 2.) The kick is an aux but it's not fused with the Battery track like the other auxes. Is there a way to fuse it so that they are all one big inseparable group? I wouldn't want to have my battery auxes and instrument track all combined over here and then a stray kick aux somewhere else in a big mixer... Overall, I really dig this layout. If tweaking those two things is possible, this may be my new workflow =) Thanks again Fader! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fader8 Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 1.) I see that you have the Battery track outputting to a bus which is sent to a Kicks aux. Do you see any advantage to, instead of sending the output to a bus, sending the audio as a Send set to pre-fader so that we don't have to worry about two faders? Makes no difference either way. Your preference. 2.) The kick is an aux but it's not fused with the Battery track like the other auxes. Is there a way to fuse it so that they are all one big inseparable group? I wouldn't want to have my battery auxes and instrument track all combined over here and then a stray kick aux somewhere else in a big mixer... Grouping of relevant faders in Logic has always been a bit of a challenge. Here's what I like to do. Open 2 environment windows. Create a new layer and call it "Percussion Mix". Drag all your Battery aux's and related channelstrips into that layer. Then you can open this layer as a float window like the below pic. Save it with a screenset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkecho Posted March 30, 2008 Author Share Posted March 30, 2008 does this remove those tracks from the standard mixer? So you basically end up with a separate mixer just for drums.. Too bad grouping doesn't cluster them together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fader8 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 If by "standard" you mean the global/arrange Track mixer, then no, of course it won't remove them. You can layer the environment any way you like. If your mixing workflow includes submixing groups, eg strings, perc, etc., then this is an easier way to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkecho Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share Posted March 31, 2008 I mean that when I press the x shortcut key and it brings up the normal mixer, the battery channels/auxes that I put into that other environment- will they still be in THAT mixer window? or does it essentially move them to a new screenset/environment layer where they are exclusively viewable there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fader8 Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 I mean that when I press the x shortcut key and it brings up the normal mixer, the battery channels/auxes that I put into that other environment- will they still be in THAT mixer window? Yes. If the objects are represented in the environment, they can be displayed in the track mixer, regardless of the environment layer they exist on. The layers are simply virtual partitions to help you keep things organized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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