Should I Quit?

[Creator of Sound]

I’m doing a course for Music Technology. This is a 2 year course that will gain me 3 A levels. I’ve been doing this course for about 6 months and I’m not impressed. There is a lack of productivity and I feel as though I’m being held back by the rest of the students. I’m studying to become a music producer, but I don’t feel as though I’m gaining anything from this course. I’ve learned a lot about good production values in the year that I’ve been producing, and I’ve also received interest from an independent record label, but this is what I’ve learned in my spare time, it’s got nothing to do with the course. I already know more than some of the tutors. And what good are 3 A levels if I’m signed? I get up a 6 O’clock in the morning and arrive at college at about 8:30am and start college at 9:00am. I have to leave college early on some days just to catch the bus back home in time. I’m also behind on a lot of coursework, and it’s really not my fault. We’re just given assignment after assignment, and we don’t receive feedback on the work that has been handed in, and some of the coursework that I’ve handed in has been lost. Not my fault. It’s causing me a lot of stress. It’s not worth it. I never wanted to get a job, but maybe it’s time that I should consider a part time job. This will give me plenty of time to develop my technique as a producer, and earn some money at the same time. Obviously I’d be missing out on 3 A levels, but like I said, it’s not worth it. I’m in need of some of your feedback, has anyone else has a similar experience? What advice can you give me? Thanks in advance!

 

Creator of Sound!

[pantomimeHorse]

As an ex-pat Brit, living in Ireland, the thing I notice most

about what's happening to the education system in Blighty under

the guidance of Blair/Brown is that, these days, an A-level isn't

really worth squat.

-

A-levels are (and always have been) about getting a university place,

and these days you need about twelve of the fuckers to get anywhere

near a REAL university in the UK, not one of those revamped polytechnics

that pass themselves off as such.

-

I'd be inclined to go with your gut feelings on this.

If you really haven't the burning desire to get into the "varsity"

rat race, don't go there. Wave an A-level at a potential employer

and you may as well be waving a dry-cleaning receipt.

-

Our American cousins may not get the drift of this post, but I'm

sure you do.

 

-

C

[fernmeister]

There's another thread current on music education that might be worth taking a look at.

 

I have mixed feelings about education in the UK as well (studied postgrad there in 99-03). A-levels really should be about university entrance, but it is worth checking out what people are looking for in entry level studio/production jobs. If your goal is to be a producer, then a part-time job as an assistant in a studio is a lot more useful than a part-time job at Tescos.

 

As for being "signed" - I think it's wise these days to have a plan that does not involve a recording label funding your lifestyle.

 

One final thought: there's a bit of "not my fault" in your post. Maybe your take on this is right, but in music people have little patience for "not my fault" type excuses. You'll only get as far as your hard work and application take you (true for all creative jobs really). It might be better to say "it's all my fault" and therefore "it's all within my power to change."

[leahbasskitten]

Our American cousins may not get the drift of this post, but I'm

sure you do.

 

you are correct!!

[pantomimeHorse]

OK, Leah ! Going slightly off-topic but I think it's worth it.

-

Because we see a lot of US movies, a fair few of we Brits have at least a

superficial understanding of your elementary/junior high/high school/college

system over there. Not in-depth, obviously, but at least the "shape" of it.

-

It surprises me not to learn that many Americans are truly, staggeringly

baffled by the British system. It is, by comparison, quite weird, and has

undergone changes recently which bring its "weirdness" quotient pretty high

up the scale.

-

Around age 15-16, kids sit a series of examinations called GCSE (General

Certificate of Secondary Education). This used to be called Ordinary Level

(or O-level) in my schooldays but has undergone diluted standards revision

over the years so that, now, it barely certifies literacy, let alone knowledge !

-

GCSE is spread across a broad subject spectrum and almost everyone who

actually bothers to attend school at all is certain to end up with at least

some certs in some subject or other. Many kids leave (drop out) after this

stage because there is no legal requirement for them to remain in the

system.

-

Those who opt to study further are required, at this point, to make some

potentially life-changing decisions about a possible career. The next stage

is a two-year run up to Advanced Level (A-levels), which is done on the

basis of choosing maybe only three or four subjects for more intensive study,

with a view to university entrance. So, at or before your 16th birthday, you

are required to chart out a particularly limiting choice of courses for the

following two years. It's extremely difficult to alter your choice later, and the

quantum leap in subject depth from GCSE study to A-level study is often

like being hit by a steam hammer for many students. Where you pitch your

A-level choices, to a very large extent, determines which university you can

legitimately target later.

-

A-level work is being constantly diluted (as with GCSE) in order to make it

embrace a larger proportion of the secondary school population, in a

somewhat desperate attempt to prevent drop-out rates from escalating to

embarrassingly high numbers, and to enable the British government to claim

that they are engaged on a crusade to create a cultured and technologically

competent society. (Which is, of course, standard political bullshit)

-

Here, in Ireland, the system is more sensibly thought out and the second-

level education (after 16) is undertaken on a far broader range of subjects

which, additionally, are studied in greater depth. It is not uncommon for

a student to take up to 10 or 12 subjects at "Leaving Certificate" level, here,

and this really does produce someone who has rounded knowledge of more

things than just mathematics or economics or whatever.

-

Sorry for long post, but I feel I may be lifting a few veils.

 

-

C

[leahbasskitten]

thank you very much! i had no clue it was different. i guess i've never really known any one across the pond before. thats interesting that you can drop out that early in comparison. if that were here, the mcdonalds and dairy queens would have a wait to just work there!

 

i grew up in a small southern town. out of my graduating class of 80 students, only 4 of us went to college. needless to say i don't live there anymore.

 

that sounds like a great idea to chose your career path that early.... BUT... i had no clue what i wanted to do till my last few months before i graduated (18). everyone was like leah's going to do computers.... small town folk as you can tell. that really doesn't narrow it down too much. i ended up changing my major three times. all of them has to do with "computers"

[pantomimeHorse]

....... i grew up in a small southern town. out of my graduating class of 80 students, only 4 of us went to college. needless to say i don't live there anymore.

 

That's a quite small percentage. That would be reflected, in the UK, not

in the "small-town" type communities but in the inner cities, where the

social unrest and racial fracture is highest.

 

.... that sounds like a great idea to chose your career path that early.... BUT... i had no clue what i wanted to do till my last few months before i graduated ..

 

Exactly my point. Most people, not counting the very few who decide when

they're 12 that they want to be undersea marine ecologists or something, do

not have a clue as to career possibilities. In Britain, that is exacerbated by the

lack of depth in any of the pre-16 coursework - no one gets a chance to

actually understand what a profession or job entails.

 

 

.....everyone was like leah's going to do computers...

 

So, at the prom, there you stood, figuring the code that was running the

rope lights instead of dancing ....... ?

 

You sound as though you know where you want to be. So many don't.

The education system of a nation has to be set up to deal with that.

 

-

C

[BCProject]

One final thought: there's a bit of "not my fault" in your post. Maybe your take on this is right, but in music people have little patience for "not my fault" type excuses. You'll only get as far as your hard work and application take you (true for all creative jobs really). It might be better to say "it's all my fault" and therefore "it's all within my power to change."

 

That's how I read the post as well.

 

It's always easier to quit. If the course-work is a required (or even useful) stepping stone to where you want to go then I'd say "take it", even if you aren't thrilled with the step.

 

Life is full of "sh!t you have to do".

[bresnark]

University (and the A-levels that preceded it) was entirely useless for me. I graduated and went straight into the job I'd always wanted to do since I was a kid (music journalism). But, it's true: I could've done that with no qualifications (I could write, which was all that mattered), and I often got a bit sneered at for being posh and over-qualified So was education a waste of my time? Only in one sense. It didn't get me anywhere, no, and I learned precisely nothing - but who knows how far it balanced me...

 

Soooo, I'm with the last poster. Someone who quits something a quarter of the way through isn't someone who'll succeed in any area of the music world. I went five years without a single day off (yep, including Christmas Days!) and never got more than a few hours sleep on any of those days. I was daaaaamn busy and horribly overworked. My brain collapsed a bit, it's true - but I knew then what I know now: being stressed, overworked and underpaid is the payoff for NOT working a McJob. You're learning the most important lesson right now: everything sucks in large amounts.

 

It's the times when you're NOT busy that really hurt. When you say "what good are 3 A levels if I’m signed?" what you should REALLY be asking is "what good are 3 A levels when I'm dropped?" In the current climate, even if you ARE lucky enough to make a living doing what you dream of, you WILL face dark periods of (hopefully temporary) failure. You will lose that deal you thought would change your life. The phone will stop ringing. The world will move on and leave you behind.

 

Every single tool you can get in your box now (and that means seeing your course through) will help you when the s#!+ hits the fan. And, sooner or later, it will hit the fan. It always does.

 

So it comes to down a motto I've always had: you don't regret what you do, you regret what you choose not to do. So don't quit.

 

Repeat: do not quit.

[fadercraig]

Without sounding like a complete tool, i completely failed university, and it was all my own fault. But I always recommend to the kids* to keep at their study, because you always need something to back you up in a world as fickle as the music industry.

 

Without knowing your school, have you tried asking you tutors for help with your issues? Maybe you do 'know more than them' or maybe you need to communicate with them more to get the education you need, and not to criticise you, but if you know so much, why are you falling behind in assignments...? The outside world rarely ever politely asks if you are ready, normally it pours it on till you work out how to cope and manage your time.

 

So if you are thinking of part time work, and you can squeeze it in with school work too, you might want to try being a tea boy (another uk-ism) for a studio. That way you can see how much dull crap there is to deal with in between the bright shining moments. School is good, and so is experience.

 

I like fernmeister's call "It might be better to say "it's all my fault" and therefore "it's all within my power to change.""

 

Serious stuff for a forum of music geeks.

 

cool

Cx

 

*no age discrimination, i call my retired clients kids

[pantomimeHorse]

........

 

Serious stuff for a forum of music geeks ........

 

 

Don't miss Craig's next talk:

 

"Neo-Existentialism -

Can Sartre's Consciousness Model Shape the Mixing Desks of the Future ?"

 

8)

 

-

C

[bresnark]

Unfortunately, Panto, J-P Sartre wrote "L'Âge De Raison" - so I think we can safely say he was never a Logic User.

 

Thank you. I'm here all week.

 

Robin

[fader8]

Maybe you do 'know more than them' or maybe you need to communicate with them more to get the education you need, and not to criticise you, but if you know so much, why are you falling behind in assignments...?

 

That's an excellent point. I have often been in the position where I've felt underchallenged academically by a particular class, but rather than let that get to me, I decided to have some fun with it. I've handed in more than a few assignments that were "not quite" what was asked for, but got a good grade anyway. My experience has been that there's always a way to make it worth your while. And the professors, at least the many I've had, seem willing to go there too.

[fadercraig]

........

 

Serious stuff for a forum of music geeks ........

 

 

Don't miss Craig's next talk:

 

"Neo-Existentialism -

Can Sartre's Consciousness Model Shape the Mixing Desks of the Future ?"

 

8)

 

-

C

 

First, i laughed my ass off. Then I gave up music entirely and found this...

 

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

Friedrich Nietzsche

 

Then i gave up thinking and went back to music...and the study of addictive forum behaviors.

 

Nobody comes to my talks anyway

 

xx

Cx

[Ed Ryan]

I didn't do it as an A-Level. So I'm not sure what they are teaching you. But if they did a good degree then you probably don't know more then them, they are possibly just going with the assessed criteria.

At college I took an AVCE in Media Production. To be blunt it was a waste of my time, I've never used anything I learnt on that course about Video, DTP, Cinematography or Media Analysis. But on a daily basis I still have to scratch my head at some seemingly rather difficult equations. So the A-Levels would have been more beneficial. I had to take an entrance year to get onto the course.

 

I've found the degree to be really helpful. My tutors all have industry experience in their fields and are approachable when topics get difficult. Yes, you can find most of the information on the internet. But I found having a structured program made it much easier to learn. Plus the information is reliable. When researching for essays I've found a lot of out of date or plain wrong articles.

 

In general I believe education is worthwhile for this sort of industry. Many of my classmates from last year have found excellent jobs fresh out of their degrees. a couple of them work for SKY on football matches, another is a program controller for MTV, another works designing hardware for Creative, another moved to Switzerland and builds Soft-synths and most recently another now runs a respected indie label You get the idea. These people have gone in a lot closer to the top then they would have by trying to learn by and work themselves into the business.

 

Strictly speaking you don't need a relevant degree to get into it. My housemate's dad is a very well respected live sound engineer, and he did a degree in Geography. Unlike accounting and other vocations there are no hard and fast professional standards for employability. So having a degree just proves that hopefully you are serious and interested, and have at least a basic grasp of what is going on.

 

From a professional aspect. Be cautious of people that say they are going to sign you or give you work. The temptation can be overwhelming. I nearly quit my course last year to go work as A&R for an indie label. But something wasn't quite right, and I'm glad I didn't. They were pretty much bankrupt when they offered me the job. I would have been out of the door within a couple of weeks of starting. I nearly threw everything away for what would have been a nothing opportunity.

 

Whichever way you go, don't expect it to yield instant results. Success either way has to be built from yourself. Rely on others as little as possible. That's probably the best thing I've learnt so far. The sooner you pick it up the sooner things start falling into place. It took me awhile, but things are now starting to go well 8)

[Housiegmail.com]

I am just coming to the end of a my A Levels (Second time of asking!!) and had very similar experiences to you... at the end of the day, you have 18 months GUARENTEED experience to gain, which will hold you in far better stead. If you do the finish the course and end up learning a handfull of things, whether from the course or from just chatting with tutors etc then its worth it. I personally find that on my course the criteria is far less valuable than just abusing the fact that your tutors are knowledgable in certain feilds, and to have an opportunity to be constantly surround by such experienced people who are not scared of being overtaken in the industry i think is unequalled...

 

A Levels still have their value... but from the view that it proves you are dedicated in learning your craft... a willingness to learn and improve. To look up to an employer and say i quit A Levels because certain things that weren't my fault happend, felt i knew more than tutors would be bad idea... use the fact that its time with limited financial pressure to perfect what you enjoy, and even more importantly raise your game in areas that you wont get a chance to learn later in life... its a feather to your bow (English-ism again!!...i think!)

 

(sorry for spelling, might have had one too many appletinis)

[leahbasskitten]

Without sounding like a complete tool

 

thats not what a tool is. you are far from being one for those reasons.

 

this is a tool:

http://www.collegeslackers.com/daily_images/458.jpg

 

any questions?

[fadercraig]

Without sounding like a complete tool

 

thats not what a tool is. you are far from being one for those reasons.

 

this is a tool:

http://www.collegeslackers.com/daily_images/458.jpg

 

any questions?

 

Yeah! do you think, like if i popped my collars, like, y'know, um, like, she'd go out with me, like, y'know?

 

Cx

 

and, how is it you have 8 posts all lined up in the lounge? dont you people sleep?! At least im in the southern hemisphere...

[leahbasskitten]

and, how is it you have 8 posts all lined up in the lounge? dont you people sleep?! At least im in the southern hemisphere...

 

i work nights.... 12 hour shift on top of that. so, yeah... there are some dead spots in the action.

[fadercraig]

and, how is it you have 8 posts all lined up in the lounge? dont you people sleep?! At least im in the southern hemisphere...

 

i work nights.... 12 hour shift on top of that. so, yeah... there are some dead spots in the action.

 

Oh you should get a job in a studio! all the free time you want, no annoying distractions, everyone is always ready and prepared, nothing ever breaks....

 

Cx

[ManOfHank]

 

Wave an A-level at a potential employer

and you may as well be waving a dry-cleaning receipt.

 

 

I have taught art at foundation level at Middlesex University (or Hornsey College of Art as it should be properly known) and at the Royal College of Art on the post-graduate design and illustration course.

 

At both end of the spectrum I found underfunding, disillusioned and poorly paid teachers, and pissed-off students. Colleges of all types no longer received proper funding and in order to pay their way they are required to bring in fee paying students from abroad whose contribution adds greatly to fees that are unjustly charged to British students.

 

Teachers no longer have an exclusive choice over who gets in to a college. The year's intake is decided by the bureaucrats that run the university more often than not. Courses of 70 or so students ballooned into course of 200 or more with fewer staff and resources in just a few years. I have even taught students who can't speak English. That's how desperate the Universities are to raise cash.

 

And who is to blame. Well take your pick. Margaret Thatcher, Tony Blair, Socialists, Feminists, the politically correct brigade. Blame them all. Or blame none of them. In the final analysis the climate of fear and 'looking over your shoulder to see who's watching' has a lot to do with it. Everyone is 'accountable'.

 

I was fortunate that in my day Working Class kids were able to go to the best Universities and Colleges. And you got paid to do so. Art School was great. And I was lucky enough to be thrown out for striking the head of department. Glorious days. 10 years later I came back as a professor. That wouldn't happen these days. High energy- high ambition- creativity. That's been replaced by a bunch of miserable faces in clapped out schoolrooms. In case you know of Hornsey College of Art- it produced The Kinks, Pink Floyd, Adam Ant and a stack of other musicians. (And music wasn't even on the curriculum). Either there was something in the water or the general atmosphere was more conducive to genius.

 

My advice is 'f*%@ the lot of 'em'. It sounds as if you've got as much out of the system as you're likely to get. You just need an insight into the technical skills you'll need (if you ain't perfect don't worry- the technology is always changing anyway). Believe me - you don't need the GCSE's. They are worse than trash. You do need enthusiasm, dedication, a sense of history and your place in an ever changing World, a cheerful and co-operative personality- and above all you need fresh ideas. Getting to the top is easy. Just love what you do and stick at it. Year after year. And you'll get to wherever it is you want to go.

 

I run a multimedia school in Italy. The pay is lousy. If you need to get involved in music and video (and I'm deadly serious about the work we are doing- it's outstanding) in the late Summer or Autumn send me a PM.

 

Oh. And if you decide to come over you're not allowed to moan. You have to be positive, ambitious and will have to do great work on some weird songs and some ever weirder videos.

[pantomimeHorse]

Amen, ManOfHank !

-

Under "sucks" in my dictionary, it says, "See: British Education System".

 

-

C

[Beer Moth]

The love of money is the root of all evil.

 

A level music these days has less challenging music theory than Grade 5 used to have when that was a prerequisite for O level.

 

We need a 3rd world war.

A new start.

 

Or a comet strike.

[dkgross]

The love of money is the root of all evil.

 

Actually, the LACK of money is the root of all evil.

 

[pantomimeHorse]

The love of money is the root of all evil.

 

A level music these days has less challenging music theory than Grade 5 used to have when that was a prerequisite for O level.

 

We need a 3rd world war.

A new start.

 

Or a comet strike.

 

Cloggy, you share the same streak of benign dictatorship wish

that I have ! ! ! !

-

Socially, something has to give - especially here in Europe.

-

Down what deep toilet has value judgment disappeared ...... ?

 

-

C

[Beer Moth]

The love of money is the root of all evil.

 

Actually, the LACK of money is the root of all evil.

 

 

Two sides of the same coin! (sic!).

And don't I know it!

[Beer Moth]

If it ends up being a comet,I need some notice.

I'm not in the rigjht place for thousand foot+ tsunamis.

And I want outta here anyway.

Be a good excuse to get my arse moving!

[leahbasskitten]

Socially, something has to give - especially here in Europe.

/quote]

 

hmmm... i thought it was tea and crumpets in europe.

 

... Movies lie! they lie i tell you!!

[Beer Moth]

Crumpets are hard to find outside the British Isles!

[pantomimeHorse]

Socially, something has to give - especially here in Europe.

 

hmmm... i thought it was tea and crumpets in europe.

 

... Movies lie! they lie i tell you!!

 

They do, indeed, Leah, my dear .........

-

While the rest of the world entertains this unlikely fantasy that England

ticks away on tea and crumpets, and everyone lives in a twee little

cottage like Miss Marple in St Mary Mead, the reality is that 10-year old

boys get killed in drive-by shootings for riding their bikes in the "wrong"

part of a housing estate and 50% of under-16's have little prospect of

becoming anything other than long-term unemployed or drug pushers.

-

I got out before the Thatcher legacy had a chance to truly hit home but

the majority were not so fortunate.

-

 

Now, in a somewhat lighter vein, be extremely careful how you use

the word "crumpet" if you're in British company ..........

-

Cloggy will explain.

 

-

C