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Sequencer in Logic 7 ??


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Sequencer in Logic 7

 

I'd like to back up the sound bank from my Nord Lead 2 to my computer so I can load sounds banks from Clavia's website to my new memory card. Nord says you must do this by utilizing a Sequencer or Sequencer software. Can I do this with Logic Pro 7? If so, how do I do it?

 

How do you open the Sequencer in Logic?

 

 

Running 7.1.1 on Tiger

 

Machine Name: PowerBook G4 17"

Machine Model: PowerBook5,7

CPU Type: PowerPC G4 (1.2)

Number Of CPUs: 1

CPU Speed: 1.67 GHz

L2 Cache (per CPU): 512 KB

Memory: 1.5 GB

Bus Speed: 167 MHz

 

thanks ahead of time

 

 

www.safermusic.com

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Logic IS the sequencer. You'd set up a MIDI track and do a sysex dump from the Nord. But...

 

I wouldn't recommend using Logic 7 to back up your Nord's sound data. There's a problem with the way Logic 7 handles sysex messages for some brands of keyboards. I know for sure there's a problem with some Korg and Roland keyboards. I mean, sure, there's no problem recording the data into Logic (SHIFT+DUMP ALL from the Nord). But if you want to send the data back to the Nord at some point, the Nord might not accept the data because there's a chance that Logic will have corrupted it, and your sounds will be lost.

 

Maybe someone else here has used Logic successfully as a sysex backup for their Nord and can tell you for sure that it works. But I'm going to strongly recommend that you don't use Logic for this until you get such confirmation.

 

Barring that, maybe someone can recommend some kind of freeware (or other) sequencer software to do your sysex dump to/from.

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the Nord might not accept the data because there's a chance that Logic will have corrupted it, and your sounds will be lost.

 

Hey iS,

 

Logic is corrupting sysex data? Since when? I've used Logic for a long time in conjunction with sysex, and never had any particular issues, other than sometimes needing to drop the transmission speed (not a Logic issue).

 

Of course, Logic isn't intended to be a sysex librarian, but it should not be corrupting data. What happens for you to conclude Logic is corrupting sysex data?

 

(Edit: wow, that's a big freakin icon!)

(Edit2: That's better.)

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Logic is corrupting sysex data? Since when? I've used Logic for a long time in conjunction with sysex, and never had any particular issues, other than sometimes needing to drop the transmission speed (not a Logic issue).

ski's referring to Nord specifically, (and a few other choice synths) that can have an unusual sysex data format. I don't recall the specifics either but it can happen.

 

No big deal though. Here's a decent little sysex librarian:

 

http://www.snoize.com/SysExLibrarian/

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the Nord might not accept the data because there's a chance that Logic will have corrupted it, and your sounds will be lost.

 

[qupte]Hey iS,

 

Hey BeeJ, are you the same BeeJ(ay) from over on that other Logic forum?

 

Logic is corrupting sysex data? Since when? I've used Logic for a long time in conjunction with sysex, and never had any particular issues, other than sometimes needing to drop the transmission speed (not a Logic issue).

 

......What happens for you to conclude Logic is corrupting sysex data?

 

Personal experience, reports I've read on line, and off-line conversations with people from a musical instrument R&D firm that I occasionally consult with. The problem seems to have to do with the length of sysex messages. Short sysex messages don't seem to be a problem. But if the strings are long (like a bulk dump), some of the info in the data header seems to get transposed by Logic. I don't know if the data gets transposed on the way in or the way out. Probably the way out tho...

 

In light of this I don't think it's a wise idea to use Logic as a means to store bulk dumps of sysex data.

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Hey BeeJ, are you the same BeeJ(ay) from over on that other Logic forum?

 

Yep - C'mon I even stuck in the Apple icon in my avatar here to tell you... :)

 

(It's getting rather tedious over there... :( )

 

The problem seems to have to do with the length of sysex messages. Short sysex messages don't seem to be a problem. But if the strings are long (like a bulk dump), some of the info in the data header seems to get transposed by Logic.

 

Thanks for the info, I'll look into this, because I know Logic was reliable for this in the past (like many people, I rely a lot less on my hardware synths than I did when they were *all* I had...) and I used Logic and Soundiver extensively for sysex stuff.

 

When you say "large" dumps, it's difficult to know what you mean. I don't consider, say 32K a large dump, but something like a Wavestation "All" dump, which is one sysex message of 256K, I *do* consider large.

 

If I can confirm or refute it, or have any other interesting findings, I'll let you know...

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Cool! So, as the unofficial welcoming committee, "WELCOME!" It's really good to see you over here.

 

I just looked through my email archives to see if I could find the analysis offered by one of the developers from the R&D firm, but alas I could not. But I remember him saying that some bytes in the header of the data got transposed.

 

Here's a link to a report of someone having a similar problem:

 

http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=25306&highlight=sysex

 

Regarding the length of the data, some anecdotal info for you... I've done simple one-way bulk dumps of the entire contents of a JV2080 into Logic, only to have the data be unreadable by the JV when I send it back (checksum error). This has happened even after I completely reset the JV to its factory settings, recorded the data to Logic, and then sent it back. (This was in L7 by the way). I don't know what the size of the data is, but it's considerable (takes about 2 minutes to dump).

 

Shorter sysex strings don't seem to be a problem. For example, when recording Tone Adjust movements from a Korg OASYS, that stuff plays back fine. Those strings aren't longer than (I'm guessing) 7 - 12 bytes max.

 

(regarding the Apple icon as a hint... a big "DUH?!?!!!!!" to me! Need more coffee and a couple of smarter brain cells). :mrgreen:

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Cool! So, as the unofficial welcoming committee, "WELCOME!" It's really good to see you over here.

 

Thanks! Hi.

 

Regarding the length of the data, some anecdotal info for you... I've done simple one-way bulk dumps of the entire contents of a JV2080 into Logic, only to have the data be unreadable by the JV when I send it back (checksum error).

 

Ok. I have an XV-5080 and a Wavestation here so I'll give that a go.

 

This has happened even after I completely reset the JV to its factory settings, recorded the data to Logic, and then sent it back. (This was in L7 by the way). I don't know what the size of the data is, but it's considerable (takes about 2 minutes to dump).

 

From memory though, a full dump of these Roland modules is not one message, it's quite a few smaller messages. Checksum errors aren't *usually* a sign of the data being corrupted *before* transmission, but are more likely to happen because the receiving device misses bytes - these devices often have fairly small MIDI buffers, and don't particularly process them very fast - they can be swamped quite easily.

 

Logic will be sending the bytes at full tilt, whereas some sysex software, like the Snoize one which is a great little utility, lets you slow down both the transmission of individual data bytes but also increase the gaps between messages, which helps a lot.

 

But anyway, I'm sure you know all this, and I'll have a look into it. Cheers for the info/links - that thread is interesting...

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(It's getting rather tedious over there... :( )

Getting? :shock:

 

Well, to be fair it's just me losing a bit of patience with it, I think. The old LP7 forum was about 10% newbie questions, 60% more general stuff, and 30% interesting/techy/power user stuff. And quite a few learning opportunities along the way.

 

The LP8 forum seems to be largely 80% newbie questions (How do I install content on an external drive? Where have my instruments gone? Why don't the organs work? Can i play the instruments on my computer keyboard? Why should should I have to read the manual, it should be easy to use? Why do I hear no sound on a MIDI track? blah blah)

 

I have no problem with newbies at all, but there comes a point you really need to do something productive with that time spent repeating the same old same old.

 

Welcome beej! Nice to see you here. Hope you stick around!

 

Cheers!

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thanks for all the feedback guys! I'll try out SNOIZE tonight when I get my Nord home from the space.

 

thanks again

 

 

Running 7.1.1 on Tiger

 

Machine Name: PowerBook G4 17"

Machine Model: PowerBook5,7

CPU Type: PowerPC G4 (1.2)

Number Of CPUs: 1

CPU Speed: 1.67 GHz

L2 Cache (per CPU): 512 KB

Memory: 1.5 GB

Bus Speed: 167 MHz

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Not a scientific test at all, but I just transferred an XV-5080 All dump via sysex (took three and a half minutes) into Logic, initialised the user banks, and played the data back to it from Logic without problems.

 

(And this is via an AMT8 connected to a 7-port USB hub, with my wireless mouse, iLok, XSkey, Syncrosoft key, and a USB MIDI keyboard connected to it. Talk about worse-case scenarios ;) )

 

It is indeed lots of smaller dumps (basically, each performance and patch are sent as individual sysex dumps, rather than one or two large dump blocks).

 

I'll try saving/loading/exporting/importing to see if any of the data gets changed, and then also try with the large block dumps of the Wavestation...

 

(Note I used to write sysex software, and synth editor software back in the Atari days, along with some Soundiver adaption programming so I'm well up to speed with sysex...)

 

More later (I can tell you're all enthralled and are on the edge of your seats... :)

 

Edit: Exported the sysex as a midifile and re-imported it, everything still fine.

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beej,

Just did a full dump from my Kurzweil K2500RS a couple weeks ago with Logic 8, and then back. Worked a charm too. That's almost 20 minutes for one of those transfers. But like your JV, it's a series of smaller dumps.

 

I've got my Unitor8 & AMT8 on one of my cinema display hubs. From the Unitor out thru 2 MIDI patchbays and into the Kurz. From the Kurz, thru one MIDI patchbay and into the Unitor. A hazardous journey, but rock solid it would seem.

 

I actually just completed a total MIDI recable/reconfigure here. (ski can attest to my ordeal). The second patchbay is a serial MTP-AV that interfaces to my recently resurrected G3 tower server running OS8.6 and SoundDiver 3. So I can freely sequence edit from this LP8 workstation and swing my chair around to my big keyboards and edit in SD without skipping a beat or throwing a switch.

 

It is truly a thing of beauty now! I no longer have any excuse. :wink:

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Yeah, sysex has been rock solid for me since the beginning, which is one of the reasons I posted to this thread.

 

This sysex corruption/transposition thing is a weird one, and it would be good to find a way to reproduce it - it might happen on saving, or loading or something...

 

And... there's *always* an excuse... ;)

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This sysex corruption/transposition thing is a weird one, and it would be good to find a way to reproduce it - it might happen on saving, or loading or something...

You may recall about 8 years ago, SD had issues with the Triton because of the issue ski refers to. I think it prompted Michael Haydn to write a firmware update to Emagic interfaces at the time, ie improving support for large sysex messages. My memory is a bit foggy on this now.

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