Need Environment Chord Recognizer>Single note tool

[Tunador]

Hi,

I friend recommended this nice forum saying that I can find some skill Logic Environment guys who can solve my issue.

I have lots of Guitar Chord samples in EXS format, where each chord sample is mapped to single note/key us usual like say Logic EXS chord guitar which comes with the factory libraries. What I need is some extra environment gear which can recognize the chord type and transform to a single note which corresponds to that chord in the EXS when I play live. I guess the enviro gear must have some setting to set the target single note, something like the Mapped instrument key setting...?

I did a search in http://www.swiftkick.com/ before, but I could not find such a tool.

The only sampler which has such midi plugin is the NI Kontakt "Akkoustic Guitar". It uses the Script Editor which is nothing more then pre-midi processing tool. That's why I still hope that this can be done in the Logic environment, but probably from some specialists?

Just as info, the NI Kontakt "Akkoustic Guitar" is mapped to single chord notes, and the Script Editor recognizes the incoming chord on any position ( Example: Amin, Amin/C, Amin/E etc...) anywhere of the 127 keyb range you play, which is great !

Is this possible in Logic environment and if yes, could you share some tool or point how to create, or someone who can solve that, so I can PM or Email...

Thanks in advance

[fader8]

The only sampler which has such midi plugin is the NI Kontakt "Akkoustic Guitar".

I don't seem to have that in my Kontakt libraries. I have Akkord Guitar, but with some of these sets the script is password protected so I can't look at them to see what they are doing. Is this the case with Akkoustic Guitar? I'd be interested to see that script.

 

Do I have this straight? You want to play a chord, have the process recognize the chord, which outputs a single note to the sampler which in turn plays the sampled chord?

[Tunador]

I have Akkord Guitar,

Thanks for your input Fader8 !

I meant exactly "Akkord Guitar", sorry for my mistake - I was away of my equipment when posted the topic.

I see, you understood well what I mean about the chord recognizer Logic environment tool. What do you think, is that possible ?

I friend of mine who is long Logic user says that it should be a hard job, when no pro-environment designer could solve this ever issue, at least looking in the http://www.swiftkick.com/ where most of them inc Len Sasso hosted their great tools.

Can you point some other site or environment specialists who could have a solution ?

Thanks for your attention !

[fader8]

I meant exactly "Akkord Guitar", sorry for my mistake -

No problem. That is an interesting set. I got the password and was looking at the script. I think you'd have an easier time having someone help you modify that Kontakt script for your own purposes. Thinking about doing this in the environment, while possible I'm sure, would be a hefty task. Tough to troubleshoot too. I'm not too surprised no one's done an environment for this yet. It's an unusual need. Most people are OK triggering the chord sample with a single key. But I can still understand why you'd want it. I'm just not sure this can be done well in that programming environment. On the other hand, Kontakt scripts can have lots of useful features, like state lookups, that you'd really need for this.

 

You can open that Kontakt script. The password is "password". There's a lot of stuff there you don't necessarily need so it could be trimmed down a lot. I'd love to take this on as I'm still learning much about Kontakt scripting, but I don't have time now. The scripting doc isn't too hard to grok and the folks over at the V.I. Control forum are pretty helpful. Why not give it a try?

[Vacheto]

I'm sure, would be a hefty task. Tough to troubleshoot too. I'm not too surprised no one's done an environment for this yet.

That's right, but not a problem for the big guns...

Working on my "Bulgarian Folk Virtual Orchestra" sample project ( which will be cross format released Ni Kontakt & EXS ) I had to construct some NI Kontakt script for the plucked instruments like the Tamboura which most play chords in the big orchestras. It was not difficult to do that for Kontakt, but EXS version and Enviro construction was a hard task, I new that it's never done before...

Anyway I could build full working Environment called "CHORD TRANSLATOR" which is a small Macro Ensemble, where each Macro translates given chord type like Maj, Min, Maj 7, Min 7, Dim etc...It's easy to import between different projects.

Tunador,

I may disappoint you, but for now it will be released as helper tool in a pack with my "Bulgarian Folk Orchestra" sample product, so I'll announce when it will be ready in my site: [commercial link removed by Admin]

The site is still under development but I'll do my best to upload some demo songs recorded with the Virtual Orchestra and Virtual Bulgarian Choir as soon I can ( right now I'm very busy with other projects ).

I just exported a short non-official quick video of the "CHORD TRANSLATOR" ensemble, and extracted a small Logic 8 demo of the "Maj" Macro to give you a try with Logic "12 String Guitar Chords" etc.. The file attachment is under the Pic below !

 

[Files removed by Admin]

[ski]

I'm sure, would be a hefty task. Tough to troubleshoot too. I'm not too surprised no one's done an environment for this yet.

That's right, but not a problem for the big guns...

 

I watched the video, but you don't have a voiceover to explain what's going on. Seems like you're mapping notes to generate a particular chord type, which wouldn't be a difficult environment to create. Or maybe you're using it to re-map notes to existing samples within EXS. Hard to tell. Anyway, it would be helpful if you could explain in more detail how it work for everyone's benefit (especially the smaller guns).

[fader8]

That's right, but not a problem for the big guns...

You say the sweetest things . . .

 

Working on my "Bulgarian Folk Virtual Orchestra" sample project . . .

 

. . . . I'll announce when it will be ready in my site: [commercial link removed by Admin]

Thank you for offering this to the community. I know there are many here that can't afford good sample sets. That's very generous of you.

 

Just a note on the project you uploaded, it seems to have a problem as every time I try to unpack the macro you made, it crashes Logic 8 dead. Does it have this behaviour on your workstation?

[Vacheto]

As I said it's not official video and I have no time to create pro-videos right now ( I will do my best to anounce the official video, but I need some months to finish the ethnic woodwinds of the orchestra, so it will be final job I guess ).

By the way I missed to say to open the Marker List text editor to read the operation instructions ( the screenset in L8 can not open the text editor, though it was saved this way ). I did my best to create very simple GUI of the "CHORD TRANSLATOR". Just two faders:

For example:

Say you have Emaj chord mapped to key/note E3 in your existing EXS and you must set the "Chord Translator" Maj Macro to recognize and map a certain chord to that key.

1/ Select "Emaj" in the Macro flip text fader labeled as "Chords".

2/ Set the green text fader labeled as "Note" to E3.

So the "Chord" fader determines the Macro chord recognition i.e the real chord you play ( look at the Transport in the demo video which chords I play on my external keyboard G,D,Em,D#dim etc..), while the "Note" green fader determines the target/mapped note/key.

It's fairy simple !

NOTE: This Environment tool uses huge amount of intelligent system memory which can calculate or auto save some data in temporary clipboards etc... though it's interface is very simple ( which is the main idea ), for example you will find autosave feature for your mapping notes - when choose new chord in the flip "Chord menu" the "Note" text fader automatically jumps to its map note !!!

About the Macro crash - ( the Macros are protected, like NI Kontakt scripts with their password protections ) so it's a demo version of the of the tool, not Environment tutor !

I will outline some of these system gears in appropriate workshops, training tools etc...

Anyway, it's an evidence what can be done in the Logic Environment ( that's why I share this idea here ), so everyone of you can try to recreate...

 

Seems like you're mapping notes to generate a particular chord type, which wouldn't be a difficult environment to create.

I'll be really happy if you could recreate that one day, though I doubt - it's NBA Pro-division game, man...

[ski]

[ahem]

 

Check out the attached movie. Only works in the key of C right now, but perhaps it could be made to recognize any key. I dunno. Not going to spend any more time on it. But it was fun while it lasted. You'll see that it recognizes a wide variety of chord qualities and correctly identifies them.

olympics.mov.zip

[fader8]

About the Macro crash - ( the Macros are protected, like NI Kontakt scripts with their password protections )

If you're aware that the project will cause Logic to crash, please remove the file, or replace it with a version that contains a macro that can be freely unpacked. Thank you. Otherwise I'll have to delete your attached file. I know for me those project crashes wreak havoc with my control surface preferences. No small task to rebuild here.

 

I'll be really happy if you could recreate that one day, though I doubt - it's NBA Pro-division game, man...

That's more than a tad harsh, Vacheto, as well as being exceedingly presumptuous. This isn't rocket science, Vacheto. It's Logic environment programming. There are numerous individuals here that can accomplish this task. Just because they don't have time to, doesn't make them any less skilled.

 

As we've discussed before, these forums exist to help people move forward academically in their pursuit to become better composers, musicians and producers using Logic. If you'd like to post a project such as the one above with an explanation of its workings, then I would implore you to do so. Posting a locked macro with no explanation of its workings is of no value. We already know it can be done. What everyone would be interested in knowing is the various techniques used to accomplish the task. Without that, nobody learns and thus cannot use that technique in their own creative endeavors. That's why we're ALL here. Thanks for your cooperation.

[Jobkey]

Ski and Fader8, you are in a great mood. Vacheto really know some things about logic environment, but really need to study a lot more about social life, take it easy man. Sometimes your comments are a little bit aggressive. Make your words as good as your environments and you'll be in a good direction.

[ski]

Jobkey,

 

What are you talking about? I'm in a great mood. I don't see where you get "agression" from my comments (which were very few. Please scroll up and re-read). And fader8 is doing his job as a moderator, and made a slew of vary valid points. This is "Logic Pro Help", not, "Logic Pro Keep All The Information To Myself".

 

And a file that crashes someone's system? I think fader8 is being very gracious in giving Vacheto a chance to replace it or remove it himself. I can tell you that if it had crashed my system I would not have reacted so diplomatically.

 

Let's leave this be, shall we?

[shivermetimbers]

... I have lots of Guitar Chord samples in EXS format, where each chord sample is mapped to single note/key us usual like say Logic EXS chord guitar which comes with the factory libraries. What I need is some extra environment gear which can recognize the chord type and transform to a single note which corresponds to that chord in the EXS when I play live.

 

What is the point here?

 

I read this to say that you can play one note and trigger the Guitar samples in the EXS. Now you want Logic to recognize the chord you play and transform it into the single note you want to use to trigger the chord you just played?

 

What are you playing live? a guitar or a keyboard? If it is a keyboard, why not play the note you have mapped to the guitar sample?

 

You might as well just sample each guitar note and map the keyboard to each sample. You can then play a chord on the keyboard and each note will play its respective mapped guitar sound.

Edited July 27, 2008 by shivermetimbers

[fader8]

I don't see where you get "agression" from my comments

ski, you may have misunderstood jobkey's Brazilian English. He was referring to Vacheto's comments, not yours.

 

You might as well just sample each guitar note and map the keyboard to each sample. You can then play a chord on the keyboard and each note will play its respective mapped guitar sound.

shiver,

The point is that the naturally strummed guitar chords have a better sound and feel than a MIDI created chord strum. So the ability to play a chord, have it recognized, then play a sampled natural strum to match it, is pretty cool I think.

[shivermetimbers]

 

shiver,

The point is that the naturally strummed guitar chords have a better sound and feel than a MIDI created chord strum. So the ability to play a chord, have it recognized, then play a sampled natural strum to match it, is pretty cool I think.

 

Okay, but if the guitar sounds are already samples and mapped, as stated, why not just play the note that is mapped to that chord?

 

Why would you want to play a chord, have it change to the note that is already mapped?

[ski]

I don't see where you get "agression" from my comments

ski, you may have misunderstood jobkey's Brazilian English. He was referring to Vacheto's comments, not yours.

 

What? ¿Que? Nani wa hanashimasu ka? Vas? Huh? It's like a multi-lingual paella in here!

 

 

edited to correct my Japanese grammar, which was incorrect in my original post (and might still be)

Edited July 27, 2008 by ski

[ski]

Okay, but if the guitar sounds are already samples and mapped, as stated, why not just play the note that is mapped to that chord?

 

Why would you want to play a chord, have it change to the note that is already mapped?

 

Could be wrong, but I think it's kind of like there's a bit of "auto arranger" vibe in this scenario. You play a chord, it's recognized by the software, and then it plays [whatever]. So if you play a B chord, Logic recognizes that it's a B and maps your chord to [something] which plays a sample of a B chord. I think. Maybe. I'll get me coat...

[shivermetimbers]

Okay, but if the guitar sounds are already samples and mapped, as stated, why not just play the note that is mapped to that chord?

 

Why would you want to play a chord, have it change to the note that is already mapped?

 

Could be wrong, but I think it's kind of like there's a bit of "auto arranger" vibe in this scenario. You play a chord, it's recognized by the software, and then it plays [whatever]. So if you play a B chord, Logic recognizes that it's a B and maps your chord to [something] which plays a sample of a B chord. I think. Maybe. I'll get me coat...

 

Logic already recognizes the note/chord that is played. The keyboard has a max of 88 notes. A chord can have so many variations(2 notes, 3 notes, 4, 5, 5 with a different root note (which makes it a 6 note chord), major, minor, etc. ).

 

The samples in the EXS are then limited to 88 unless using combinations of notes would continue this process. In that event you would need to know which note goes to what chord as well as the combination of notes to a chord.

 

So playing a C note would trigger the C sample chord. A note from the low end of the keyboard could be used in combination with the C note to determine MAJ, Min, Dim, Aug, etc...

 

The low note 'C' would be used with the regular 'C' note to play the sampled 'C major' chord.

The low note 'C#' would be used with the regular 'C' note to play the sampled 'C minor' chord.

The low note 'D' would be used with the regular 'C' note to play the sampled 'C dim' chord.

etc.

 

Hopefully, not every chord in existence will be needed.

 

Since I play guitar, I think this could be used for more practical applications...

[Vacheto]

Well, I new you will do your best to censor my post again guys as you do always when somebody shows something good, which somehow underrate your own reputation here ( I'v never seen such censored forum ), though I guess why....

I do not wish to go into troubles any more.

If you're aware that the project will cause Logic to crash, please remove the file, or replace it with a version that contains a macro that can be freely unpacked.

As far as mentioned before, it's a working demo and does not crash the system until you try to unpack.Why do you try to unpack when know that it's right protected. I can understand your curiosity but sometimes there are some licenced protection laws which you try to break down - is that legal in USA ?

Something more - I'v seen many environments which crush somebodies system for some reasons whithout to try to unpack etc ( midi feedback caused by personal template prefs etc.. )... but this does not mean that they will crash all the systems or to remove from hosts.

I tried to give direct answer to the head topic with 100% working Environment, and free demo - what more ?

I can not see any use of you previous posts, where you try to unpack licenced NI scripts and publish their passwords which is of topic ( though the author announced it long time ago ).

Thanks to Ski, he did his effort to try at least to show us Monitors objects. Wow - they are giant then the factory Logic Transport chord Monitor. An useful tool for retired long time Logic users...

If wish, censor the post and the file, but this is the truth. It was a pleasure to discuss that with you.

Thanks !

[ski]

Another smarmy reply from Vacheto:

 

Thanks to Ski, he did his effort to try at least to show us Monitors objects. Wow - they are giant then the factory Logic Transport chord Monitor. An useful tool for retired long time Logic users...

 

Oh, I didn't just try --- I succeeded. What did you succeed in doing? Crashing fader8's computer by not including a warning about unpacking your protected macros? That's quite an accomplishment.

 

This is the second time you've come here to discuss the environment and cried "censorship". Something's wrong with this picture, and TRUST me, it's not the policy of this forum that's at fault. There is VERY little censorship here. You have been asked very politely to remove your file, or, replace it with one with unprotected macros that won't crash people's computers. And you cry "censorship" because of this?

 

@ Shiver,

 

As you can see from my video above, it's possible to get Logic to recognize chords. I did this by programming something that recognized the "signature" of certain chords. Similar to what you said, if you play a root and a fourth, the programming recognizes this as the makings of a sus4 chord. But of course it could also be the first two notes of a 2nd inversion F chord. But for basic chord structures, similar to the way auto-arrangers work, there woud need to be certain "ground rules" in terms of what chords you play in order to have Logic understand the intended voicing.

 

So I got it to work for any chord for which C is the root. The difficulty I ran into was trying to get Logic to take any chord and understand what the root is, and then apply the same process of analysis.

 

Anyway, for me this whole thing was a bit of an academic exercise, and I don't have the time or inclination at the moment to pursue it further. But it's an interesting idea all the same, and I enjoyed working on it for an hour or so.

[David Nahmani]

Vacheto,

 

You are missing the point of this website. We are all here as a community of Logic users, to help each other, and to discuss the tool(s) that help us live our passion: music.

 

This means we don't "protect" the work we upload, and we don't keep trying to steer forum members away from the forum and onto another site just to give them a little tease but not really an answer. If you have an answer and are willing to share it with the community, by all means use this website to do so. If you have an answer but would like to protect it and are not entirely ready to share it with the community, then please do not post that answer on this website.

 

One more thing. When a moderator asks you to remove a file, don't argue. Remove the file.

 

Tunador,

 

Sorry you had to see this for your first thread on Logic Pro Help. I can assure you, it's not usually like this here!

[lyghtningrod]

but Logic already tells us the chords when we play our keyboard. Any way to tap into that to power your chord namer?

[ski]

but Logic already tells us the chords when we play our keyboard. Any way to tap into that to power your chord namer?

 

Unfortunately no, there's no way to tap into that aspect of Logic in realtime or otherwise for MIDI processing purposes.

[lyghtningrod]

Darn.

[Tunador]

Tunador,

 

Sorry you had to see this for your first thread on Logic Pro Help. I can assure you, it's not usually like this here!

 

I'm sorry, but what happens here?

This morning I could download Vacheto's "Chord Transloator Demo" and was really very satisfied that at last I could find a genius who can solve this issue in a very intelligent way. He was quite kind to explain that it is a future project tool for his sample instruments, and shared a little demo which proves that chord translation can be done in the Logic environment.

Unfortunately I was away of my Logic and decided to post a reply after the Chord Translator trying.

 

Thank you Vacheto, this is a great work - the demo works as charm here, so I'll wait for your official release with your sample instruments ( by the way I'm very interested of Balkan ethnic samples, I mostly work for the movie production ) !

The chord translator fits all of my requirements, I originally posted - chord recognition of the all 127 key range like Kontakt Akkord GT; it recognizes the chords in any position like Amaj, Amaj/C#, Amaj/E etc...; you can set your custom map just for seconds ( well demonstrated in the last part of the Vacheto's video where he changes the factory settings of his folk instruments to the Logic factory 12 string chord guitar ), so you can play musically triggering the chords using very short key range - I'm a piano player and wish to split my keyboard and play chords with my left hand. I also noted that Vacheto's Macro calculates the overall chord velocity and translates to the mapped note somehow, so it's a very useful feature for using multi layering samples. I own lots of midi files with guitar chord loops, so I can use them with the chord translator and not spend time to extract single notes and remap to the sampler guitar instrument.

Vacheto, I'll visit your site from time to time to check how the things are going on, so when they are ready I wish to get these sample instrument products.

I'm so sorry that I involved you in this forum conflict somehow - genius like you are not welcome sometimes and I suspect why...

Take care man !

[ski]

I'm so sorry that I involved you in this forum conflict somehow - genius like you are not welcome sometimes and I suspect why...

Take care man !

 

Tunador, you did not involve Vacheto in a conflict. He created the conflict all by himself. As David has pointed out, it is not in the spirit of this forum to post protected software that we cannot all learn from. In this case, the macros contained in his file (these being bundles of environment objects which act as a self-contained unit) were made as "protected macros". As such, attempting to open them can crash your system. Without a warning to this effect (behavior he's apparently aware of, which makes the situation all the worse), his attachments were removed because they are dangerous.

 

Who knows, maybe at this point you're going " " because his programming is helping you out, and not exactly acting "dangerously". But it crashed fader8's system, had the potential to crash other people's systems, and regardless of this Vacheto didn't remove his files. So they were removed for his uncooperative bad self.

 

genius like you are not welcome sometimes and I suspect why...

 

He and others with similar expert skills are absolutely welcome here. But genius or not, it's no excuse for posting dangerous files and being uncooperative.

 

In any event, welcome to the forum.

[Jobkey]

I don't see where you get "agression" from my comments

ski, you may have misunderstood jobkey's Brazilian English. He was referring to Vacheto's comments, not yours.

 

That's it ski, fader8 it's right. Vacheto's comments that are sometimes with some kind of sarcasm. I don't understand why. Like I said, if his word were so kind like his environments are good, it really would be a good helper.

 

Vacheto, man, don't take us wrong, You help me out in some doubts, and I thank you, but sometimes your posts are a little bit aggressive, I mean, sometimes you make the things looks like: - You are the only man that knows things about Logic. Even if would be true, sounds bad when You say that. You don't need to say everytime. I know I know I know, and never say, nobody knows, nobody knows, nobody knows.

 

If you just help people out, and stay in a open mind spirit, you be in a good mood.

 

If you don't agree with me, I really sorry, I don't want to be offensive here, just want to help you to see why sometimes your post are censored, like you said. Just take it easy man.

 

Like I try to say before,

 

ski and fader8, you are in a great mood, really. You know a lot about environment and Logic, but you are open mind and kindness, sound to me that you are more happy to help people out than show your talents. Vacheto's looks like he would be more happy showing his talent in the first place, and after that help people out.

 

Again, Vacheto, don't take me wrong man, it's just what looks to me, maybe I'm wrong too. I hope you could understand my points.