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Help needed with Match EQ


Christian Nickel

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Hi everyone!

 

I`d like to "match" my recorded saxophone signal with a very nice "template" from a CD. I imported a brief solo-passage as the template and tried to match my modest attempts. What I got, was an EQ-setting that sounded like the "phone filter".

I tried to follow the instructions in the manual, but this part isn`t written all that well. Both ways described either with the Output 1/2 and the individual Audio track sound terrible.

 

Also, is it a problem that my saxophone is mono and the original is in stereo? - and how I can I get around it?

Thanks!

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To get around the stereo-mono thing, just insert the appropriate plug in on each track. On the stereo Cd track you mentioned, after you 'learn' the 'template', just go to the plugin's menu and select 'copy setting'.

 

Now, go to the mono track where 'your' sax is, (where you've inserted a Match EQ plug) and go to the plugin's menu and 'paste setting'. Now you'll have the template from the stereo track.

 

All you have to do now is 'learn current material'. And then you can match the EQ. Let me know if this makes sense.

 

Very important when using the Match EQ on a single source. I've found that the closer the musical passage is between template and source, the better match you'll get. So try to find a section where the saxophones are in the same musical range, or playing in a similar way. Also, make sure its the same sax as harmonics on an alto are completely different than a tenor, etc.

 

Also, be sure to mess with the smoothing and apply parameters, in a lot of cases it can be better to use the Match EQ just to 'lean' one sound towards another instead of shooting for a complete match.

 

My two (or three) cents.

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Hi Shipjumper,

thanks a lot for your help and input - you seem to have played with that feature.... I am trying to match my tenor sax with Michael Brecker`s. I am even playing the same mouthpiece etc., but it appears that he has very distinct EQ-ing... He was just a genius.

 

I`ll try your tips tonight and let you know how it`s working....

Thanks again.

- Christian

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is the recording of Brecker's sax by itself or in a mix of other stuff. Will be really hard if its not by itself.

 

Also have to remember mic placement has a big effect on the sound you get from a tenor. Do you have any idea where MB put his? That will help you get better results too.

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Well, I tried to follow your advice shipjumper, but the result is the same (phone EQ). The template is a 1 minute solo passage (just him on tenor). The mic-position is the same: - I saw it on videos of his studio recordings. The only difference is the mic.......

The EQ-curve looks weird (see attachment) - almost as it is the mirror of what I want....... Any suggestions?

602786914_Picture1.png.6ef00b81aabd75234d33b35443cf1c75.png

My Match EQ when applying the "match" function

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You're using the CD track as the 'template' and your track as the 'current' right?

Try backing off on the 'apply' and see if it sounds any better. I've used this plug several times matching up different sax recordings successfully. Not sure what's happening here without hearing what exactly you're working on.

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What mic are you using, what does the room sound like and are you playing it in the same way? I would expect very little EQ with this kind of music - its more about the player, the mic and the room. Perhaps you can post an mp3 clip of your recording for us to hear?
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Thanks for helping, guys!

here are 2 mp3`s. One is me (CHN without anything), one is MB.

I did the matching according to your suggestions, shipjumper: I also turned down the "apply" to 40% which made it sound better, but not better than my original...

Mic: Shure SM58 (MB used it in the 80s, I believe)

Room: Well, my living room......

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You can upload an mp3 if you zip it and it is less than 2mb. Otherwise you could upload it to somewhere like sendspace.com and paste a link here.

 

I think the issue may be your mic. It is quite common to record sax with a condenser mic such as a u67. This will probably give you more treble than an SM58 and will certainly give you a better recording. Cheaper condensers are available that will also give good results.

 

I found an article that says that on Breckers' last album they used a U67 and a Coles ribbon mic:

 

http://mixonline.com/recording/tracking/audio_michael_brecker/

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Hi!

these 2 files are MINI - just a few kb (and a few seconds). Maybe it works now to attach them.

MB in stereo (from a record, the original template is a minute long))

CHN in mono (excerpt from a solo)

 

Thanks for finding that article. - Interesting... I had reasonable results with the soprano sax, just the tenor is a problem.

 

Again, I don`t think that the mic position is the problem, because there aren`t that many options/variations for "placement".

Archive.zip

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Hi there,

 

I think perhaps the reverb on the track you are trying to copy confuses the Match EQ. To my ears your recording lacks body/low mids. Again, I think the most natural way to fix this would be to use another microphone or perhaps a combination of mics as discussed in the article I linked. With something like this EQ-ing and processing often sounds unnatural very quickly.

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Hi!

you`re probably right with everything you say:

1. When I "EQ" the tenor, I add in fact low mids; that`s definitely a weakness of the Shure mic. Remember, the recording you heard was totally unedited

2. I`ll definitely get another mic

3. I have found a short piece of "template" with barely any reverb.... I`ll try to match that. Also, maybe I should try to sound a bit more like "myself".....

- In terms of that: Any advice with a good reverb (Space Designer setting) that you could recommend for my purpose? I`d like a big room with the sax still sounding close-up, maybe similar to the template.........

 

Thanks so much again!

Cheers

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I think a short hall setting on space designer will be closest to the template track. You might also want to try downloading some Lexicon 960 or 480 reverb impulses perhaps from http://noisevault.com/nv/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=29&func=selectcat&cat=7 ? Another idea would be to use a third party reverb plugin like IK CSR or Artsacoustic as these will have more movement since they use algorithms instead of impulses.

 

In terms of the tone of the sax - you're right, the player does make a difference. As does the room, mic, mic position, preamp, instrument etc. I think a different mic will get you closer to what you want though. It's always best to get the sound as good as you can at source before doing anything else.

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Hi there!

I can`t import the impulse-responses files from the link (wav-files), but I found "old" impulse responses from Logic 6 when the space designer was first introduced. Several settings from the Lexington models (960/480) are in there. Do you know them? - I am going to test them on my material. The Neumann mic is obviously out of my price range, the Coles however appears to be a more realistic choice.

Thanks again for helping!

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Here's a drag-and-drop based Match EQ method (from the manual)::

 

• Drag the source audio file onto the Template Learn button.

• Return to the start of your mix, click Current Material Learn, then play your mix (the current material) from start to finish.

• When done, click Current Material Match

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