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Environment:Control Logic Curves with MIDI Channels in Mixer


inquiry

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I see that if you create an External MIDI track in the Arrange, you get a special MIDI channel strip in the Mixer.

 

I'd like to have some of those MIDI channel strips present in the Mixer -- but instead of them being associated with External MIDI tracks in the Arrange, have them routed to control the MIDI curves of Software Instrument tracks in the Arrange, and/or the Track Automation curves of Arrange tracks (for Software Instrument tracks and Audio tracks).

 

Is that something that can be done in the Environment?

 

(I know I could record the normal External MIDI slider data to External MIDI tracks in the Arrange, and then copy it to other track types -- but I'm looking for some handy "live" control of soft synth parameters from the Mixer during mixdown.)

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That doesn't seem to be working for me. If I drag the little white "Instrument" object from the Environment into the Arrange, it changes my existing Software Instrument track into a External MIDI track. If I drag the thing that looks like a mixer Channel Strip from the Environment into the Arrange, it doesn't add a MIDI mixer strip to the Mixer.

 

Just to clarify, what I'm trying to end up with is the software equivalent in Logic of of some knobs and sliders on a hardware keyboard controller.

 

I want a "Mod Wheel" slider and a "Pitch Bend" slider appearing in the Logic Mixer -- ideally with pulldown menus on them where I can assign them to control any curve for any currently-existing Logic track.

 

The normal External MIDI Mixer strips send MIDI controller data out of Logic to your hardware. I want them to send MIDI controller data into Logic instead.

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I want a "Mod Wheel" slider and a "Pitch Bend" slider appearing in the Logic Mixer -- ideally with pulldown menus on them where I can assign them to control any curve for any currently-existing Logic track.

 

Not possible. But instead of that, create various knobs/sliders in the environment, program them to the type of control you want, cable them to the destination instrument and work those controls from an environment window. In fact, you can create an environment window that floats so that those controls are always visible, and you won't have to tile anything. (See the environment window option that lets you create floating, frameless windows. You can even hide the inspector and the cables, and then narrow the window width down to a bare minimum).

1741807037_Picture9.thumb.jpg.d6a30a6f3ef9bbb5271310fc84d85d66.jpg

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In addition, you can create a "menu" (text fader) that lets you select from as many destinations as you want. Then you'd only have to select the track you want to record that data on, select that same destination from your self-made menu, and use those same controls for any instrument. It takes some programming to do this, but it's eminently workable. Now, all this stuff will record data as region data, but there are ways around that too.
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I see that if you create an External MIDI track in the Arrange, you get a special MIDI channel strip in the Mixer.

 

I'd like to have some of those MIDI channel strips present in the Mixer -- but instead of them being associated with External MIDI tracks in the Arrange, have them routed to control the MIDI curves of Software Instrument tracks in the Arrange, and/or the Track Automation curves of Arrange tracks (for Software Instrument tracks and Audio tracks).

 

Is that something that can be done in the Environment?

 

(I know I could record the normal External MIDI slider data to External MIDI tracks in the Arrange, and then copy it to other track types -- but I'm looking for some handy "live" control of soft synth parameters from the Mixer during mixdown.)

 

The way I am understanding this is that you want to control Just about everything and anything with your Mod and Pitch wheel?

 

Or do you want a virtual controller because you don't have a real hardware controller?

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The way I am understanding this is that you want to control Just about everything and anything with your Mod and Pitch wheel?

 

Or do you want a virtual controller because you don't have a real hardware controller?

 

Well I'm not sure your distinction -- I want virtual versions of hardware controllers. With real hardware controllers I would be able to do everything I'm talking about if I'm not mistaken. (I'm pretty sure you can route incoming MIDI controller data to track automation...)

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Ski -- that sounds pretty good.

 

It might be too much hassle having to wire things up to specific tracks any time I want to do a quick fade though. You mention a text pulldown -- is there any way to have one pulldown that selects the channel you want to connect to, and a second that selects what curve you want to control?

 

I'm wondering how all this could work even with wiring things though -- will all the zillion track automation controls be exposed in the Environment when I have a softsynth and a bunch of effects loaded to a channel? I need to connect the fader to, for example, "Wet Amount" on a particular currently-loaded echo plug-in.

 

In my pulldown scenario, the pulldown menu would have to get populated with whatever the current channel's plug-in parameters are...

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It might be too much hassle having to wire things up to specific tracks any time I want to do a quick fade though. .

If you simply cable the fader objects output to the sequencer object, it will apply to the track you have selected in the Arrange.

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In any case I think this is looking like a good feature request for Logic 9.

 

There would be a new class of faders in the Mixer (none by default, create as many as you want, hide/show them). There are multiple pulldowns on each fader to assign it:

 

- Incoming MIDI. You assign what incoming MIDI controller number (or pitchbend or note velocity) makes this fader move by remote control.

 

- Track. You assign which of the currently-existing tracks the fader gets routed to.

 

- Hypereditor Control. You can choose any of the Hypereditor curves here as the destination of the fader.

 

- Vol/Pan. You can can choose the track automation Volume or Pan curves here as the destination of the fader.

 

- Current Plug-In "X". For each plug-in currently loaded on the currently-selected track's channel, there is a separate pulldown menu. Each pulldown lists all of the track automation parameters available for that softsynth or effect. You select any destination you want for the fader.

 

(Note you can assign multiple destinations for the same fader.)

 

 

Your external hardware controls move the virtual sliders, the virtual sliders get routed wherever you want. Much faster and more flexible than setting up hardware controller routings in Logic Preferences currently -- even if you never want to use the virtual sliders directly.

 

 

(There's actually a problem with my architecture above -- you could end up with too many pulldown menus if there are a lot of plug-ins loaded on the track. So in the Vol/Pan menu, there should be a list of the currently-loaded plug-in names. You select only the ones you want [toggle on/off selection], and for each of those a separate pulldown menu then appears on the fader.)

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The hardware controls move the virtual sliders, the virtual sliders get routed wherever you want. Much faster and more flexible than setting up hardware controller routings in Logic Preferences currently --

If you purchased a "supported" control surface, you would have exactly as you describe.

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If you simply cable the fader objects output to the sequencer object, it will apply to the track you have selected in the Arrange.

 

To what on that track though?

 

Fader8 makes a good point, simplifiying my proposed scenario. In answer to your question, inquiry, those environment faders would output that data to whatever track was currently selected.

 

However, to write that data to automation, it might be necessary to have that data written from "within" Logic (meaning that it would have to be applied directly to the audio object being targeted, not the sequencer input. I'd have to check to be sure).

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Inquiriy, just to keep the nomeclature straight here, when you say "curve" you're talking about writing automation data, yes?

 

It might be too much hassle having to wire things up to specific tracks any time I want to do a quick fade though. You mention a text pulldown -- is there any way to have one pulldown that selects the channel you want to connect to, and a second that selects what curve you want to control?

 

The most recent information posted notwithstanding, the answer is "yes".

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The hardware controls move the virtual sliders, the virtual sliders get routed wherever you want. Much faster and more flexible than setting up hardware controller routings in Logic Preferences currently --

If you purchased a "supported" control surface, you would have exactly as you describe.

 

But I think if you want to quickly change what hardware knobs are going where, my approach would be faster and more elegant -- don't have to open up each plug-in to get at its controls. (And are most MIDI keyboards with their mod/bend wheels supported?)

 

Some people might like it -- and it's icing on the cake anyway, as I'm really after these software sliders! And so will you be when your supported control surface is not at hand with your laptop on a plane...

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Inquiriy, just to keep the nomeclature straight here, when you say "curve" you're talking about writing automation data, yes?

 

It might be too much hassle having to wire things up to specific tracks any time I want to do a quick fade though. You mention a text pulldown -- is there any way to have one pulldown that selects the channel you want to connect to, and a second that selects what curve you want to control?

 

The most recent information posted notwithstanding, the answer is "yes".

 

Yeah by "curves" I mean controlling/writing track automation (or Hypereditor) data.

 

I know zero about the Environment, so if you want to bother giving me exact step by step instructions for whatever can be done, I will appreciatively check it out.

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inquiry,

 

There'd be no way to give you a step-by-step on how to set up what I described --- it'd be too lengthy. But here's a very simple scenario you can try yourself. This does not involve floating windows, it's just a very basic primer...

 

• open an environment window

• select the Clicks & Ports layer

• New > Fader

• Set the fader's output definition to be controller #1

• run a cable from that fader to the Sequencer Input object (the one on the right to which the other objects are connected. It may be labled "To Logic" or such like). You will not see an actual representation of an input "jack" or port on that object; just click/hold the triangle from the fader and drag the resultant cable to the Sequencer Input's graphic. Let go and you're connected

• tile your arrange and environment windows so that you can see both simultaneously

 

At this point, any track you select will receive modwheel (CC#1) data from that fader. Whether or not you get any response from it depends on the nature of the track, i.e., it will only have an effect on instrument tracks where the instrument is programmed to somehow respond to CC#1.

 

If you move the fader while in record, you will generate a region containing CC#1 data. If you want to change that to automation data, use the function under OPTIONS to convert region data to (track) automation data.

 

That's the simplest scenario. If you want to amend it, you can create a second fader, cable it similarly, and change its output definition to, say, panning (CC#10) or cutoff (CC#72 on some synths).

 

HTH.

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It is really simple to built a virtual controller with one knob (external and/or in the environment) controlling every parameter within the channel strip. It is also very easy to build an extremely complex virtual controller to do the same thing.

 

With one external knob/fader the same thing can be accomplished using controller assignments.

 

However, the use of Automation negates all of this because the very same thing is accomplished simply by selecting what parameter you want to automate. This includes the plug ins, volume, pan, mute, solo.

 

Here are two examples of what I am talking about. The examples are in Logic 7, but can be opened in 8.

 

The FCB file is my FCB1010 foot controller having its way with some logic parameters. Hit the play button and watch. Open the guitar Amp pro plug in to see what happens.

 

The Envi file is a simple set up using an audio insert and a chorus plug in.

Move the knob to operate it.

 

You will notice the OUTPUT (over at the left) is set to Control and the channel is set to 1, and the -1- is set to 7.

 

This means the output of that fader knob is set to Control the CC#7 or Volume.

 

NOW - click on the OUTPUT and change it to FADER and move the knob. Nothing happens, right?

 

What we will do now is control the Chorus parameters.

 

The Chorus plug in should be open. Move the Intensity slider and watch the right monitor numbers. Change the Channel to the number 2 and change the -1- to 1 then move the knob.

 

Click on BYPASS. Change the channel to 1 and the -1- to 56. Move the knob.

 

That sux, go to the STYLE (above output ) and select button. Ahhhh... That's better.

 

It's not that difficult, is it?

 

Does that help some?

FCB1010 Control.lso.zip

Envi.lso.zip

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Ski and ShiverMeTimbers,

 

Thank you both very much for all that. I'm going to study it carefully and read the manual over the next few days as I have time and will post again if there's anything I can't figure out...

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