Nu-Disco/Indie Dance Plugins & Techniques

[workistorture]

Hi

 

I was curious what are some good nu-disco/indie dance plugins used by people like bloody beetroots, justice, japanese popstars, and the like...or are most of what they use samples?

 

 

I would also like to know the basic characteristics of nu-disco and indie dance music. When I hear that kind of music, I know it's indie/nu-disco but I can't describe why it sounds like that and I was hoping somebody could help me articulate this music style in words.

 

And what techniques do they use (ie sidechaining, cut-off technique, etc.)? I would like to know all of these basics so that I could create something new and unique myself.

[MtL]

workistorture, you just made my evening.

 

I would hardly claim to live in a cave, and I've never heard of "nu-disco/indie". That you know of it, makes you more experienced than most. So to ask what plug-ins they use - that doesn't seem like the kind of question with an evident answer.

 

And why would you want to know the tricks used by other artists so as to "create something new and unique yourself"?

 

Studio the basics of digital audio engineering. Experiment and create.

 

I applaud you for asking. You will do well to hang out, and learn from other people asking specific questions to specific problems. Many may be problems you've never even considered, and you will learn by reading the responses.

 

Best of luck. And if you do find that nu-disco/indie miracle plug in, let us know. I'll be a monkey's uncle. And I might even buy the plug.

[workistorture]

 

And why would you want to know the tricks used by other artists so as to "create something new and unique yourself"?

 

Because by knowing the foundations/characteristics/tricks of a nu-disco track (like how electro uses sidechaining in almost every track out now), I could use those techniques, build upon it and maybe create something unique out of it...or even creating a new meld of sounds never heard before in a dance record.

[MtL]

I fear you miss my point.

 

If every artist you hear is using the same "trick":

 

Run.

 

Run fast.

Run far.

 

Hence, be different.

 

Sure, study side-chaining. But study it so that you know it's function and purpose, not so that you can just side-chain harder than those that came before you.

 

Let's not get off on the wrong foot here. I'm just saying the magic tricks aren't writ in the sky.

 

You seem to be tossing out techniques and terminology. These are good starting points. Go for it.

[lukasz]

I fear you miss my point.

 

If every artist you hear is using the same "trick":

 

Run.

 

Run fast.

Run far.

 

Hence, be different.

 

Sure, study side-chaining. But study it so that you know it's function and purpose, not so that you can just side-chain harder than those that came before you.

 

Let's not get off on the wrong foot here. I'm just saying the magic tricks aren't writ in the sky.

 

You seem to be tossing out techniques and terminology. These are good starting points. Go for it.

 

I think people focus to mch on being different-- you havet to learn how things work before being "different." thats the point, you take the old and rework it, but how do you take something to rework if you dont understand its basics?

[kraze]

Hi

 

I was curious what are some good nu-disco/indie dance plugins used by people like bloody beetroots, justice, japanese popstars, and the like...or are most of what they use samples?

 

 

I would also like to know the basic characteristics of nu-disco and indie dance music. When I hear that kind of music, I know it's indie/nu-disco but I can't describe why it sounds like that and I was hoping somebody could help me articulate this music style in words.

 

And what techniques do they use (ie sidechaining, cut-off technique, etc.)? I would like to know all of these basics so that I could create something new and unique myself.

 

First of all, what caused mtl to chime in is clearly the fact that you ask for " plugins". Almost any plug-in ever can be tweaked and used in any context if you have enough knowledge and a good set of ears.

 

I'm fairly knowledgable in the subject, i put out a few records on a few european labels that is now refered to as "electro disco house" even though the ed banger thing wasn't really out and i was just trying to make glitchy crazy stuff with a touch of Italo Disco in drums and synths.

 

Drum wise, it's all classic drum machines with way too much compression (usually daw stock plug-ins) both individually and on a bus. Kicks and Snares should be treated with a reverb, use space designer and have the amplitude envelope follow the waveform so that there's just a pinch of a tale that's drastically cut off, giving it the fast gated effect. Don't layer kicks for the main kick part, but layer a snappy short 808/909 snare and a 80's styled "realistic" sbare but don't forget what i said about compression. The compression isn't supposed to sound pro and transparable which is exactly why daw-bundled plug-ins are great for it but i have to make a push for Stillwell and their Rocket compressor, it barely costs anything and is the best plug-in i've ever heard for slightly squashing drums while still keeping an analog flavour.

Using wav's in arrangement view is actually how most signed producers do their drums and so do I, but using Fxpansions Guru for what's not the kick and snare is a great way of spicing it up, that's a brilliant piece of kit capable of both rhythmic and sonic mangling.

By the way, in terms of samples, http://www.hexawe.net/mess/200.Drum.Machines/ will last you a lifetime.

 

Synths, both lead and bass is where this hip sub-genre really makes it mark. It's what makes the genre stand out on the dance floor and the explanation of it's rise.

Obviously, both bass and synths are side-chained to create the groove the genre is known for but if you're into the genre you already know that. Both synths and bass are always treated with forms of digital distortion too and a plug that's a staple on all bass and lead synth tracks is CamelAudio CamelPhat. It has great distortion, a sweet filter capable of hefty resonance and a very simple but extremly effective section of compression. It also has a LFO-section that can be used as sidechaining by setting Master Volume as target, Ramp up as shape, rate to 1/4 and dial in the appropiate depth. For shaping your bass and lead synths it's a must. For instruments, believe it or not, most current producers use a sampler. I'd suggest you get into Kontakt because even if it might seem totally unfriendly and illogical at first it definently fits the genre perfectly. However, while hardware synths are often sampled, software is just as used. For sounds you're used to i'd suggest Rob Papens Albino 3, Gforce Oddity, Schwa Olga (free fully functional version) Novation BassStation, DiscoDSP Discovery and Ohmforce Symptohm. Check out all of these, they're all brilliant instruments and sampling them to tweak out in Kontakt is a deadly combination. Layer, Loop, Tweak, use macros and you'll have loads of fun while finding your sound. Don't be afraid of using big chains of plug-ins on your synth when sampling it, for example using reverbs before sidechain, several layers of compression doing different things depending on their place in the chain and carefully placed modulation all have just as big of a part in making a monster out of a single note as synthesis and the design you're doing in your sampler is going to be.

 

But that's not all people use sampling for. Hits and stabs from 70's funk/italo-disco is often used and tweaked. Also, in more modern more melodic stuff, some people like Digitalism also sample typical clean indie-pop guitars. A bit of a edgy trick is to take a guitar line that has both open and palm muted parts playing a note/chord, slice it with a sampler (esx24 works great for this), play a one bar pattern, bounce down, copy it three times and pitch shift each bar into a progression of your choice. Add some creative editing by hand (reversing, stuttering, etc) and enjoy the perfect blaance between real and fake. I recently did this with a distorted part that i wrecked in even more distortion and forced it into tune using automated pitch-correction and it made for a really good hook with enough edge to pull it off. You shouldn't be afraid to endorse the DJ-side of things. This genre is basically filled with dj's wanting to be bands so embrace it, make your own melodical content and don't sample like most hip-hop producers use it, but adding flavor of different stuff that no one would expect to fit in this context is what this genre is all about. Just look at Boys Noize.

 

What about effects? While CamelPhat takes care of the basic shaping and tweaking, modern electro house is known for some very out there sounds. Most producers swear by using distortion plugs made for guitars. Guitar Rig went into "noisebox" territory with version 3 by including a space echo and making the concept even more modular. There's lfo's and stepsequencers mappable to everything and if you want certain tracks to have a very distinct sound everything you need is in that package. If i were to suggest a affordable bundle i'd suggest Sonalksis TBK Series. It's all brilliantly sounding plug-ins with oldschool designs. They all feature one big knob and a minimal set of controls and include a Filter, a Reducer/Crusher and a Compressor. The filter takes care of the filter sweeps required in the genre perfectly with very smooth sweeping but still being capable of shrill resonance. TBK2 is great, it has 4 different algorithms and handle bit/hertz reduction in a very pleasing way. TBK3 is a monster, it's a compressor made for sonic destruction. It makes over-over-over-compression sound so clean that it's ridiculous. It can transform a busy synth-line into mangled a percussive pattern, make dodgy snares really snappy and much much more. Also, i'm a big slut for Audio Damage and every plug-in they've ever released is worth owning, but for starters in this type of sound i'd recommend Automaton and Kombinat. Speaking of multi-band distortion, if you really want your synths and drums to growl and punch you should definently get Ohmforce Ohmicide, it's amazing for really digital and mangled distortion and feedback. FabFilter is also great, everything they've done should fit the genre perfectly and I frequently use the filter Volcano, the delay Timeless and the synths One and Twin.

 

All in all, this genre is much more dependable on making sounds edgy than owning hundreds of plug-ins. Alot of the glitchy edits are often done by hand using your daws audio editing functions. Get a few software synths, Kontakt, a few more extreme effects and a step sequencer/sampler like Guru and you got everything you need.

[workistorture]

I fear you miss my point.

 

If every artist you hear is using the same "trick":

 

Run.

 

Run fast.

Run far.

 

Hence, be different.

 

Sure, study side-chaining. But study it so that you know it's function and purpose, not so that you can just side-chain harder than those that came before you.

 

Let's not get off on the wrong foot here. I'm just saying the magic tricks aren't writ in the sky.

 

You seem to be tossing out techniques and terminology. These are good starting points. Go for it.

 

I think people focus to mch on being different-- you havet to learn how things work before being "different." thats the point, you take the old and rework it, but how do you take something to rework if you dont understand its basics?

 

 

Alright, I'll take both of your advices and stop rushing myself too much.

 

But I guess it's only been a week of me trying to learn how to produce so far and I felt that studying the basic elements of what this subgenre is would allow me to understand why it's called that subgenre...but ya I guess I didn't think that creating my own twist on it would require a large foundation of the basics (which I obviously don't have). Hopefully I'll be able to find all the tools here to be successful.

Edited November 1, 2008 by workistorture

[workistorture]

And Kraze, that was a very helpful post as well. Thank you!

[lukasz]

And Kraze, that was a very helpful post as well. Thank you!

 

I agree, he went above and beyond! fantastic, I would even dare say it should become sticky because of all the great info in it.

[ChicoSatis]

WOW.

 

I'm not even into into ANY form of electronic music but I have to say that Kraze s post was fantastic. To say that I'm intrigued with different styles of music production is an understatement. I'm always fascinated to learn how a lot of these electronic dance genres are composed because listening to the tracks I wouldn't even know where to begin myself.

 

Excellent post Kraze.

 

HAve a good one.

[kraze]

Thanks guys.

 

I'm going to start releasing a bunch of video tutorials I've been making since summer. They will all be exploring the sounds of different sub-genres and artists and how to achieve them using software or other fun techniques. I've got episodes lampooning Modern Drum & Bass, Electro House, Creative Sampling, Reaktor, Audiomulch, Breakbeats, 8-bit, Amazing Free Plugins and about 10 more.

 

I just really hate sflogicninja.

Edited November 1, 2008 by kraze

[route-electrique]

Goldbaby Kits -> GURU equals superior.

[ChicoSatis]

Thanks guys.

 

I'm going to start releasing a bunch of video tutorials I've been making since summer. They will all be exploring the sounds of different sub-genres and artists and how to achieve them using software or other fun techniques. I've got episodes lampooning Modern Drum & Bass, Electro House, Creative Sampling, Reaktor, Audiomulch, Breakbeats, 8-bit, Amazing Free Plugins and about 10 more.

 

I just really hate sflogicninja.

 

Nice.

 

Keep us informed.

[MtL]

kraze, that was an awesome response. Very helpful, (much more helpful than my crotchety old man response.)

 

lukasz, I wasn't emphasizing being different as a starting point. In my first post, I recommended starting with the fundamentals (as did you.) IMO, different should be the end goal. After learning the basics, strive to make music that stands apart.

 

Otherwise, why bother at all?

 

And I'm not advocating just the freaky and weird. There is nothing intrinsicly wrong with music that is easily accessible and resonates with a large audience. There are some pop songs that have an instant classic feel. As though "I've known this song my whole life."

 

Peace.

[DannyKing]

hmmm, very very good post kraze. You wouldn't happen to be the kraze of Make this Party Jump would you??? love that song. Man i love acid house.

[fader8]

I'm going to start releasing a bunch of video tutorials I've been making since summer. They will all be exploring the sounds of different sub-genres and artists and how to achieve them using software or other fun techniques. I've got episodes lampooning Modern Drum & Bass, Electro House, Creative Sampling, Reaktor, Audiomulch, Breakbeats, 8-bit, Amazing Free Plugins and about 10 more.

That's a really interesting topic framework, kraze. Are these primarily Logic based techniques. Now we just need to get David ramped up to host videos here, eh? hint . . hint . . .

I just really hate sflogicninja.

I'll reserve any detailed comment here, but suffice it to say that I know what you mean.

[DannyKing]

Any sign of these video's kraze? I'd be very very interested.

[MtL]

Any sign of these video's kraze? I'd be very very interested.

 

Word!

[NeekRusher]

Hi

 

I was curious what are some good nu-disco/indie dance plugins used by people like bloody beetroots, justice, japanese popstars, and the like...or are most of what they use samples?

 

 

I would also like to know the basic characteristics of nu-disco and indie dance music. When I hear that kind of music, I know it's indie/nu-disco but I can't describe why it sounds like that and I was hoping somebody could help me articulate this music style in words.

 

And what techniques do they use (ie sidechaining, cut-off technique, etc.)? I would like to know all of these basics so that I could create something new and unique myself.

 

Hey work. a website you could check out to keep your ears always to latest sounds

of nu-disco etc etc is beat portal I live on there, besides gmail,Facebook, myspace, Hypebeast

and logic pro. I myself made the transition from hip hop rap music to electro house.

I love it. The post that Kraze gave was awesome because I'm always looking for tips to

make my sound unique in that genre of music.

 

Before seeing this post today I recently started using camel phat and camel space

I love camel space. A lot of music from paris has that sound your talking about.

IE: Justice St Pauli

[untitled1100]

great great post kraze, thanks a lot for those tips!

 

I too am reallllllly looking forward to your videos! please do let us know when they're up..!!

 

cheers

 

J

[kraze]

Hey guys.

 

I just wanted to say that i'll be putting up a few quite basic videos in a week or so. We're shopping around all the other vids but I will whip up some new ones to just host for free on youtube.

 

Are there any special things you'd like to see? Don't worry, there's a few videos on Sound Design In Electro House planned.

[jayperson]

Joey Casio uses old sequencers, a cheap mike, various other crappy boxes, and a show that makes all the little girlies cream.

 

if that helps.

 

-jay d. bird

[Syllogism]

The problem with trying to make music sound like what everyone else is doing is that...your music will sound like what everyone else is doing. (Unless you "aim and miss" and accidently come up with something more interesting.)

 

This is especially depressing if what everyone else is doing is rather limited and dull.

 

For my part, I could happily pass the rest of my life without ever hearing another 80s-ripoff distorted keytar patch over a stiff beat with no groove, funk, or soul.

[SELF]

Hey Kraze, any word on those videos?!

[djfsharp]

I know these genres / artists pretty well so I will chime in.

 

Bloody Beetroots -- Bob uses Cubase, Arp 2600 (soft synth), & Moog Little Phatty...how he gets the extreme harmonic distortion remains a mystery to everyone & he is very secretive about his techniques.

 

Boys Noize -- (I talked with him for a while a few months ago and picked his brain about a lot of things...he is def one of the most skilled producers ive ever seen). He uses all outboard gear...Korg MS-20, Juno 106 ("unison" mode trick is all over his records), and he just bought a Jupiter 8 which you can hear all over his new album. He has a number of guitar pedals, sherman filterbanks, Moog pedals, that he uses to achieve his sound.

 

One tip he + tons of electronic producers use a lot in his music is resampling of his basslines and synth lines. Basically he will write a bassline...cut it up...throw it into EXS24 or similar sampler, and drop in parts of it throughout the song. He can also quickly add Pitch Bends or Modulation to those individual parts a lot easier than he would if it was just 1 large MIDI region. He also uses this technique when processing his synths like re-adding more distortion, saturation, EQ, every time.

 

Crookers -- A lot of outboard gear + Logic. Their kick drums are what everybody wants and honestly I've never heard another producer in the genre get such a well-rounded but hard kick. They use the older Aka MPC2000XL & its compressor which is known to be unique to the machine which is one tip to their drums. My best guess is layering...pick 3 drums (1 sine kick tuned for sub bass, 1 harder kick with nice body, 1 snare or clap sound and cut off everything except for the beginning attack transient). Their synth sounds mostly come from the Virus C, they are very VA-sounding but fun. Bot used to be a member on this forum Im pretty sure as I saw a question he asked about quantizing presets.

 

Justice -- infamous for "stretching the truth" when it comes to their setup..I am very fascinated with their production techniques and realized lots of their stuff isn't just CuBase + GarageBand like they say. They also used the Roland Juno 106 and Korg MS-20 which you can hear on their last album "Cross". Their distortion plugs are all on Cubase however, they sound very digital.

 

Note to self, those epic kick + snare drums were given to them by Soulwax...not impossible to replicate but it will be tough. They also sample+layer tons of drum sounds from modern hip hop (50 Cent "In Da Club" on their song Genesis) and classic rock records (ie: Queen, Billy Squier).

[Fagabeefy]

I want to see Kraze's videos. Youtube has become infested with bad tutorials by 'expert village' and I've had my fill of Logic Ninja.

[kraze]

I felt like I needed to revisit this thread after the very misleading post by djfsharp. I'm not saying that he's wrong - I'm just saying that you don't really learn anything from it.

 

Bloody Beetrots use whatever. There's a bunch of free plug-ins that they've just straight up used presets from - the most obvious one being the Hoover from Warp being a preset from the free synthedit plugin GenesisCM, availibe on Computer Music every week. Their sounds aren't anything special, it's just bread and butter presets and a big abused board during mixing.

 

The whole fidget thing just sounds so weedy and bad in my ears - and Crookers is no exception.

 

People like to say that Justice are analog synths + digital effects, but I've found the opposite to sound alot better - if you've got good hardware processors that is.

 

Anyways, I'm putting up 10 videos in early October and two more daily!

[djfsharp]

"very misleading"..your entitled to your own opinion if you think they are presets or all digital gear (some of it is definitely).

 

Those guys (that i listed earlier) production are in demand more than anyone else in electronic music. lets be honest they know their s#!+ and are better at it than ME or YOU so stop acting like a few youtube videos & some presets you post up are gonna achieve the same results.

 

I used to work at a dance label here in LA and spoke with both BB's & Boys Noize in person at length about their production techniques. Im not making s#!+ up unfortunately man but believe what you want + best of luck w/ the vids, I'll check em out.

[kraze]

You just spent alot of time namedropping and in this particular type of electro it's not really as much the gear you own as it is the processing and signal chains. I mean, just because someone happen to use a Juno - it doesn't mean that it can't be reproduced, even using free plugins. To be honest, I own too much hardware gear and that's kind of cramping my style a bit. I wish I could just get rid of everything and use nothing but Reaktor. I'm not posting up any presets and you havn't seen any of my videos so you have no idea what I'm about. And yeah, the free plug-in thing i mentioned was just because Bloody Beetroots blatantly used that preset and it can serve as an eye-opening moment for alot of people starting out if they check out that plug and hear that sound. Speaking of them - you talked about their stuff but you did not mention the Fantom keyboard which is all over their new record, dare I say 80% of it.

 

Granted, I started producing this stuff before LA started realizing what's up (OMG DAFT PUNK PLAYING COACHELLA, BEST GIG EVER!11111) but I wasn't saying what I was doing myself, i was merely saying that you don't need to spend a fortune to do this. I've spent money on all my gear, but someone with just a few choice plugins and knowledge who do their mixdowns at a studio with a big board can produce amazing stuff. I was never talking about what I did myself.

 

Did you even read my main post in this thread? I did no such thing as what you're saying I'm about. I've either owned or own every single piece of gear you talked about and I'm saying you don't need that to make stuff that excells those guys.

 

And man, are yous serious about Boys Noize? The new stuff sounds better, but all the old stuff always baffled me because it's just so low quality production. I get that was kinda what he was going for but still, it all still feels like underdeveloped demos and I'm still confused as to how that quality can fly. I mean, I like the fact that it sounds like he made it on a MPC 60 with a juno and a few guitar distortion pedals but that kind of quality usually isn't acceptable.

 

I don't think anyone should take production tips from artists. I mean, I do my own stuff too but when I do lessions, even on electro stuff, I never really share my own techniques since I don't think they'd work for anyone else. I try to be as open as possible and reinforce the fact that people need to create the sound that works for THEM by just learning the basics and making their own melting pot of sound. The artists you mentioned are "in demand" because they happen to have a sound that's very hot and hip. That has _nothing_ to do with music production skills or any merit. I'm sure you've also heard quite a few songs that you would've been embarrased to put your name on.

[JKC]

This thread delivers quite well.

 

It brings up the age old question of if it is better for beginners to learn how to reproduce the sounds that they love so much, or if they should spend days and hours searching through until they find what they love for themselves. It's like when you make a band with your friends and your 14. You just wanna cover Metalica songs, I think the same thing applies with the original poster.

 

Either way both Kraze and djfsharp's input has been helpful to me.