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anyway to commit a frozen track? Bounce in place?


Morerecords

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thanks I realize that. Thaat's why I would like to bounce them in place, giving me back my CPU for another round of processing. People can defend it all they want, but this is a flawed approach. I prefer all the other DAW's approach to Freexing UGH! so frustrating, I thought logic would have put audiosuite style/ bounce in place by now...oh well, mayb Logic 9 whens that due anywayz? next year?
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thanks I realize that. Thaat's why I would like to bounce them in place, giving me back my CPU for another round of processing.

Then you want to use the "Export track as audio file" command, which includes just the insert effects on that channel strip. Be sure the Add to Bin is checked in the dialog. Then delete the regions in your original track and drag the new one in. Remove the plug-ins.

 

This keeps all your sends intact and your sidechains still referencing the correct channel.

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How is "exporting track as audio file" and then removing the insert FX on the channel substantially different, in terms of CPU usage, than freezing the same track. By my measurements, and according to the CPU meter, they are both the same. I guess I don't understand the question...?
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i think when you have some automation on volume/pan etc, lots of effect etc, you want to commit quickly and maybe add more FX later-on or re-edit, a nice'n'easy 'BOUNCE IN PLACE' would be a time-saver, instead of solo, bounce, find, drag, delete, bypass fx etc... these are the kind of actions i don't want to have to think about when possible, they get in the way of a creative workflow imho.

 

maybe some sort of automator script inside Logic would be the trick.

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I thought logic would have put audiosuite style/ bounce in place by now...oh well, mayb Logic 9 whens that due anywayz? next year?

 

I'm with Morerecords - I'm a destructive edit kinda guy (for musical/creative reasons - see my videos on the SLUG user group site (or search here)

 

Anyway, Logic had Audiosuite destructive processing in the sample edit window until Logic 5 or so. Boy, do I miss that!!!

 

John

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You can destructively apply effects using Soundtrack Pro. select the file you want to edit in the Logic arrange page and open it in the external audio editor - Options>Audio>Open in Sountrack Pro (you may need to setup Soundtrack pro in the prefs). Any changes you make will be reflected in logic when you save them...
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I am totally with morerecords on this. You can't move frozen tracks. Say you are at the very limit of your CPU usage and you want to add a reverb, unfreezing and adding the reverb leads to meltdown. Render the region to audio and start adding more effects would be so useful. I guess its an issue if you are running a not quite so fast machine like me! :roll:
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You can destructively apply effects using Soundtrack Pro. select the file you want to edit in the Logic arrange page and open it in the external audio editor - Options>Audio>Open in Sountrack Pro (you may need to setup Soundtrack pro in the prefs). Any changes you make will be reflected in logic when you save them...

 

Ah but can you do this to a midi file and work with the audio in Logic?

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I can see this would not be an issue for those running newer machines, but for those trying to squeeze the last bit of use from older machines, this is a big issue ... and after all, isn't the freeze function aimed at this group of users?

 

My main frustration with freeze is not the lack of editability (I can live with that), but the necessity to always freeze from the beginning of a project. Say 3 minutes into a piece I want to change a frozen track, I'll unfreeze it, make my changes - so far so good - but on refreezing, I have to twiddle my thumbs while the whole track is refrozen from the beginning. This gets very tiring, very quickly.

 

It would be much more usable if the user were able to specify the start point of a freeze (Freeze Between Locators, for instance). The newly created freeze file could then replace that section of the old freeze file, thus preserving everything that came before and after. Yes, in some instances, delay or reverb tails may be truncated, but I can manage that myself by simply refreezing the whole track at a time that is more convenient - such as mix down.

 

For me, at least, all of this puts freeze in the "avoid at all costs" basket, but, with Logic being such a deep program, there is more than one way to skin a cat! So here are some methods I've come up with to deal with this situation:

 

Method 1 (maintains editability of your inserts while using freeze)

 

As is often the case, the main CPU hog of a channel strip will be the Software Instrument and not the insert FX. If you want to freeze the instrument, but retain editability of the inserts:

 

1. Copy the Instrument Channel Strip (opt-cmd-C)

2. Set the channel output to a spare buss.

3. On the newly created Aux, click settings button and select "Paste Channel Strip Setting". All inserts, sends, pan and vol fader of the Aux are now identical to the Instrument Channel Strip.

4. On the Instrument Channel Strip, bypass all inserts and sends, reset the pan to centre and reset the vol fader to 0db.

5. Freeze the instrument track.

 

From now on, put any new insert fx, sends, panning, volume changes automation on the Aux - which now conveniently appears as the 2nd channel strip in the Inspector.

 

Note also that if any channel automation already exists on the instrument channel, you will need to copy it to the aux and delete it from the instrument channel. Any insert automation will also need to have its midi channel decremented by 1 (or alternatively, cmd-drag each insert in the aux down a slot - which is the simpler solution).

 

Any automation of the instrument itself will have to remain on the instrument track and will require unfreezing to edit.

 

Obviously, there is a lot less mucking around if you set up any software instrument that you will most likely need to freeze like this from the start. That is, create the instrument track with its output set to a spare buss, insert the instrument and use the Aux for insert fx, sends, automation, pan and fader changes.

 

Method 2 (an alternative to freeze, allowing rendering to begin from any point in the project)

 

1. Create a Software Instrument with its output set to a spare buss and insert an instrument.

2. Mute, delete or remove the output of the newly created Aux.

3. Create an Audio Track with its input set to the same buss chosen in step 1 and Input Monitoring enabled (allowing you to monitor your software instrument through your audio track).

4. Use the Audio Track (not the Instrument Track) for any inserts, sends, automation, fader changes.

5. When you want to render/record the instrument to save CPU, select the Audio Track, place the playhead at the appropriate position and hit record (no need to record enable the track, as logic does it automatically). If you don't have enough CPU to record without drop-outs, try soloing the instrument's track, or use the Export Region/Track function, drag the file from the Bin to the Audio Track (Cmd-Shift-R will spot the region at the correct position if needed).

6. When done, mute the MIDI regions.

 

With this method you can keep the instrument active after rendering, as it won't use much CPU while no MIDI is passing through it. This allows you to easily add and then render (or not) new parts as you go.

 

You can also drop-in sections, if you have only changed a bar or two, and then easily tidy up the in and out points on the Audio Track with the junction tool or within a take folder.

 

At mix down, either:

 

a) Keep the MIDI regions muted and keep using the 24-bit audio file on the audio track and do an online bounce/mix.

b) Umute the MIDI, mute the audio and freeze the instrument track, thus preserving the 32-bit signal path, and do an on-line bounce/mix.

c) Unmute the MIDI and mute the audio (also preserving the 32-bit signal path) and do an offline bounce.

 

(I should add that I haven't thoroughly road-tested this 2nd method, but so far, it seems to work fine ... so let me know if you find any problems).

 

Anyway, to make a long post longer, all of this has lead me to one of those "wouldn't it be great if ..." moments, which is:

 

Wouldn't it be great if a you could ctl-click a MIDI region and select "Render in Place" and the MIDI region would be replaced by a 32-bit audio region which would be a pre-insert bounce of the software instrument. The audio region would then follow the same path as any MIDI regions on the track, i.e. they would share the same inserts, sends, pan, fader etc. It would be an elegant way of implementing what is achieved by using method 2. Of course, you would also be able to ctl-click a bounced audio region and select "Revert to MIDI Region" if you wanted to go back and make some changes to the MIDI ...

 

Sorry for the long post, but I hope it gives those on slower machines some workable alternatives when wanting to save some CPU.

 

Tom

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I 'should have' not opted to buy a new machine and complained about how Logic studio should be able to work on a G4 800mHz machine, but then I too would be complaining about the freeze function (which I used to use a lot).

 

However, editing a frozen track would be a nice feature if it ever got to that point.

 

 

 

I can see this would not be an issue for those running newer machines, but for those trying to squeeze the last bit of use from older machines, this is a big issue ... and after all, isn't the freeze function aimed at this group of users?

 

 

"... The story of the little engine has been told and retold many times. The underlying theme however is the same - a stranded train is unable to find an engine willing to take it on over difficult terrain to its destination. Only the little blue engine is willing to try, and while repeating the mantra "I think I can, I think I can" overcomes a seemingly impossible task."

 

 

http://us.penguingroup.com/static/packages/us/yreaders/littleenginetc/images/logo04.gif

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Agreed we need bounce in place, an absolute must, saves time and patience, I know we can just bounce down ect and reset but how simple would this be, and everyone who is a heavy user has wanted this for ages.

 

One very important thing though, freeze files do 2 things that ultimately stitch you up.

 

1.Frozen tracks do not unload memory from the plugins frozen, they sit in memory, i think the samples are unloaded but nothing else.

 

2.Frozen tracks streaming off the hard drive are bigger than if you simply bounce them down, they are kept in a larger format 32 bit i think, any way i tried it and there is way less strain on the hard drive from bounced audio than freeze files.

so bounce tracks down

 

Malk

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1.Frozen tracks do not unload memory from the plugins frozen, they sit in memory, i think the samples are unloaded but nothing else.

 

I'm not sure whether or not that's true, but it really doesn't matter: the RAM space occupied by a plug-in is tiny, and rarely an issue. What matters is the amount of CPU resources it needs to process the audio, and that's reduced to zero when freezing a track, which is the point of that feature.

 

The fact that it's 32 bit floating point means that freezing a track gives you the exact same signal as if you didn't freeze it. When you bounce down to 24 bits, you don't get the exact same signal, but as you mentioned, you do save on hard disk bandwidth.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I just one to add one more vote to add render/flatten. It is such a useful tool. For example, in Ableton I am able to freeze a virtual instrument track, hit "flatten" and then start chopping the audio file into a million little pieces and rearranging them as I hear fit.

 

The method of bouncing to bin does work....but the addition of a single button would save those of us that frequently prefer to render VI's and FX a long of button pressing.

 

2 cents.

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