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Changing latency using i/o plug to external hardware


ted_manzie

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I have now spent about 2 whole days trying to set up 3 items of external hardware to use with Logic :(

 

the problems i have come across (and i know from other posts i am not alone) :

 

 

1. no automatic way to compensate for delay using i/o plug

 

2. i used latency fixer and some laborious tests to resolve issue 1, then find that latency is different if the i/o is on a channel or on a bus.

 

3. create different latency values to solve issue 2, then find latency to i/o plug on bus changes depending on if software instrument tracks are selected not.

 

4. cannot solve issue 3 but then find also that if i have the i/o plug on a channel and another i/o plug on a bus, removing the channel causes the latency to the bus to change.

 

 

there are so many problems with this i really wonder if anyone is bothering/able to integrate hardware with logic?!

 

and then in the manual the i/o plug gets one page, like its the easiest thing in the world to do. hopeless!

 

i might put all my hardware onto ebay and be done with it...

 

ted

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I know, this is a pain. Regarding how/why your latency changes, it's hard to say without looking at the routing of your project specifically. One thing to keep in mind is that Logic's PDC "advances" track signals but also "retards" aux's and output signals to put everything into alignment. This can make things "interesting" if you're combining tracks and aux's in your external signal flow. So you have to be careful in this regard.

 

One thing that can help you streamline this a bit is this plug-in:

http://artificialaudio.com/pluginmenu/1

 

It can make things go a little faster for you. Yes, it's too bad we don't have a built-in ping and compensate plug in Logic. Please add your voice to Apple Feedback for that:

http://www.apple.com/feedback/logicpro.html

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the latency changing when selecting/deslecting software instrument tracks has been discussed elsewhere on this forum, although without a resolution. just appears to be a plain Big Bug..

 

what i found in addition is that if i have the i/o plug going to an external compressor on a channel, and a different i/o plug to an external delay on a bus, then i can use the 3rd party AU 'latency fixer' to get everything working fine. however if i remove the i/o plug on the channel (for example after i have done a bounce of that track) then the latency on the bus send changes (by a lot).

 

so basically it makes for a very unreliable and changeable setup. which makes me wonder if anyone actually uses logic with external processors. i mean you read various magazines and you would think that every big producer has tons of outboard, but if its as unreliable as it seems to be i can't see how anyone can work like that... !

 

ted

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the latency changing when selecting/deslecting software instrument tracks has been discussed elsewhere on this forum, although without a resolution. just appears to be a plain Big Bug..

Many of these are misunderstandings of the software instruments "Live Mode" status and how to deal with it.

 

what i found in addition is that if i have the i/o plug going to an external compressor on a channel, and a different i/o plug to an external delay on a bus, then i can use the 3rd party AU 'latency fixer' to get everything working fine. however if i remove the i/o plug on the channel (for example after i have done a bounce of that track) then the latency on the bus send changes (by a lot).

Is the I/O plug on a bus or an aux? Are you removing, (not just bypassing) the Latency Fixer?

 

so basically it makes for a very unreliable and changeable setup. which makes me wonder if anyone actually uses logic with external processors. i mean you read various magazines and you would think that every big producer has tons of outboard, but if its as unreliable as it seems to be i can't see how anyone can work like that... !

It can be reliable but it really requires a good understanding of how Logic works, particularly PDC. Also changing your workflow to have less variables, eg burning instrument tracks to audio, etc., at mixdown time. ALL DAWs have their snafus when it comes to using external processing gear.

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the latency changing when selecting/deslecting software instrument tracks has been discussed elsewhere on this forum, although without a resolution. just appears to be a plain Big Bug..

Many of these are misunderstandings of the software instruments "Live Mode" status and how to deal with it.

 

if you know a workaround for this i would be interested to hear it. this is the scenario:

 

one audio track with some 'send' to bus 1, one software instrument track (using ultrabeat), one FX send bus (bus 1) channel using latency fixer and i/o plug to send to digital delay.

 

select the audio track in the arrange/mixer. stop and press play. the send to bus 1 is fine.

 

select the software inst track. stop and press play. the latency from the send on audio 1 changes dramatically.

 

deselect the software inst track. stop and press play. the latency from the send on audio 1 returns to normal.

 

 

 

personally i cannot find any workaround for this?

 

thanks

 

ted

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one audio track with some 'send' to bus 1, one software instrument track (using ultrabeat), one FX send bus (bus 1) channel using latency fixer and i/o plug to send to digital delay.

Just to be clear. Is it actually a bus channel object that Latency Fixer is inserted in? Or is it an aux return channel object?

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select the audio track in the arrange/mixer. stop and press play. the send to bus 1 is fine.

 

select the software inst track. stop and press play. the latency from the send on audio 1 changes dramatically.

 

deselect the software inst track. stop and press play. the latency from the send on audio 1 returns to normal.

Just to add to this, and perhaps save you some hassle, there are certain situations where the PDC does not work predictably, or in the case of using the External Instrument plug-in, not at all. But I'll share a workflow that I've found reliable.

 

I have never had a problem at all when I bounce an instrument to audio and place it on a new audio track. This becomes my dry track. I then duplicate the regions to a new track. On the new track, insert the I/O plug followed by Latency Fixer. This becomes my wet channel.

 

What's interesting about this is that you can do this for more than one track. When you send a signal via the I/O plug to an output, it's really placing it on a mix bus for that output pair. So multiple signals can be sent even simultaneously this way. It's very cpu efficient too, and dead stable.

 

Hope that helps a little.

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Just to be clear. Is it actually a bus channel object that Latency Fixer is inserted in? Or is it an aux return channel object?

 

hi, i have an aux channel strip set up for use as a standard FX return. so to be clear -

 

channel strip is called 'Aux 1'. it has the latency fixer AU and the i/o plugin as inserts, the i/o plug is going to an external delay unit.

 

the input for the channel strip is 'bus 1'.

 

from the audio track i am using 'send 1' to send some signal to 'bus 1'.

 

as mentioned, the latency of the Aux 1 channel strip (i/o plug) changes depending on whether a software instrument is selected in the arrange/mixer.

 

cheers

 

ted

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