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Logic Vocal Trance track...


Jeremy Alexander

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great track mate!!

i would recomend less panning or atyleast leave something always in the middle,it is very confusing to l;isten 2,also the whole mix seems 2 compressed or something it has a very slow pump 2 it wich is kinda anoying also!!

not much 2 fix and u have a great track but man,

good work :)

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Awesome! I really like this track. Very classic house/trance. Female vocals, like the ones you have, do it for me. I can well see this going to club release. All the classic cheesy tricks with some nice production thrown in. It kind of reminds me of Chicane meets DJ Quicksilver. I hope you take that as a compliment!

Best, L

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man sounds a lot better now,still i would get rid of any effects u have on master bus and maybe apply a small amount of compression and limiter!!

i think a good effect would to also mute youre reverbs so they cut of after a build up and make the first beat of the new verse clean!!,,if u get me??

just helps 2 create more impact after the build up,and adds more power to the new beat!!

good work mate!

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I'm going to get rid of the master bus fx and do another mix while trying to make sure it stays under 3db. Good idea with the reverbs! I got it! I'm trying to decide whether to leave the master bus fx to a mastering engineer. All these tempting plugins are just adding noise and destroying the hi's. Too much color in the mix! GETTING CLOSER.....=0) Thanks for the support! new mix will be posted Sunday!
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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Ok here it is 49 tracks of mess...miles of automation and a bottle of advil later....

read while you listen!

 

here's the link:

http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=4016734&q=hi

 

NOW to answer all of your wonderful advice first off, the hi's were taken down so they're not as piercing, I made a second break a mix in and a mix out for club play. Comp/Limit on master bus, also used an aural exciter which really made it feel good. It was bounced with PoWr Dither #3 (noise shaping) if that matters to any of you.

 

Atreyu, let me know if i'm getting closer with the reverbs, i dried it out a bit. I also threw the vocals right down the middle. Let me know if you still hear the "pump"

 

did i mention that izotope Ozone is a processor whore?

 

what you're hearing was bounced to 160kbps mp3 so i could post it on soundclick, so it may make some difference.

 

Let me know if you think I should use a different dither to bounce.

 

THANKS ALL!!!

 

J.ALEXANDER

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Hi mate,

Sounding really nice. On this mix, for me, some parts come in quite suddenly, and I know advice against this has been given, but sometimes verb can be used to nicely blend parts. The trick is to controlling it and the tail, so that it mixes nicely. Have a listen to Light a Rainbow by Tucan I think. There you will hear, I'm almost certain it's on thier release and not a remix, that you can use verb to carry things through without muddying/confusing the mix. Personally, I think it's quite a nice euphoric effect that for your clubbing listeners is easier on the groove. Not everywhere, but just a touch to help things along. I'm really, really enjoying your track, although I thought the arrangement was better the first time. The one you have now is great, but perhaps as an extended mix.

Also, one little thing is the lower harmonies you have added. Perhaps those parts need a little EQing to get them to sit nicely with the other vocals?

You know what I think of your music, so I mean this all constructively. On the other hand, don't just take my opinion, if it sounds awesome to you, then it is.

From one ex-clubber :-)

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Thanks so much for the compliments & advice! it really means a lot! I haven't really mastered automating reverbs, it's really difficult for me at this point to control them effectively until i do some studying up. Great point though! What would you recommend I do to have a radio mix? what parts should I cut off/shorten, do I lose the 2nd break climax? My next venture is a radio cut, i'm also going to see about equing those low vox...you may be right! The funny thing is, it actually sounds great on my crappy car stereo! phew! that's a plus! Hope to hear from you soon and i'll listen to that Tucan track too..

 

cheers!

 

j

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Hi mate,

Glad to hear everything is going well! These verb tails are quite easily controlled in Space Designer by pulling the envelope backwards and forwards, and it's automatable. I don't mean a long crash, but just a nice flow through.

As for the stucture, that's entirely up to you! Personally, a radio mix should be between 3 and 4 mins, emphasising the important parts. I'll have another listen, but ultimately, it's your track, and if it sounds good to you, then good it is! Let us know or send an email or something when you have some more done!

Best, L

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I really like the way everything builds in this mix and how you bring down the texture towards the end. The vocal fx are great. The swooshy, big euphoric sound, it's all there.

 

One thing though, the mix still has too much (or the wrong kind) of squishing for my taste. I can hear it clamp down with the effect that the parts where it's supposed to get big don't sound like they're getting as big as they could be. Hey, it might be perfect for the club environment but I think the whole thing could sound more dynamic without loosing any punch. Try fooling around with the release times on the comp and see if that makes a difference or maybe just back off on the ratio at tad. Or take it to a pro and see what they can do to make the track soar! Keep it up. It's been cool following the evolution of this track.

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wow! hey guys thanks for the comments & support...to address both of your comments i'll start by saying that they go hand in hand! This seemed funny to me. The worst issue i'm running into at this point obviously is mastering the song on my own, I've gotten complaints about too much pump and here's the situation. On the master channel i've been using (from top to bottom) Channel EQ, Izotope Ozone for the widener/exciter (it's just a dance preset that really pumps up the sound) and finally Logic's multipressor. then here's the kicker....I've created mixes with that channel strip and another with the Waves L2 maximizer/limiter, it makes it REALLY LOUD! but I think it's killing the dynamic of the sound. There are 2 multipressor presets that have 2 distinctly different feels...the dance finalizer and the "punchy drums" preset. CAN YOU SEE WHERE ALL OF THIS IS GETTING CONFUSING??? It's driving me MAD! Could you recommend a channel strip for this type of music? Honestly I think I'm overkilling it. It's just that that Ozone and Multipressor sound SO FREAKING GOOD! Apparently I'm not an engineer and have little interest in tweaking the same song for the next 12 months until I trash it.

 

I've been trying to figure out how to take the tracks to an engineer but I can't export them from Logic because of the simple fact that with a multi-export I'll lose all of my busses i.e reverb/delay. I've been told the only way to do it is to sit there and bounce 49 tracks individually while everything else is solo'ed...uh no...i don't have a year to sit around while Logic renders. This track is a MONSTER, a BEAST if you will. I would absolutely love to do something with it but I just don't feel like the master is ready. Any suggestions for Online mastering???

 

Thanks for listening & cheers!

 

J.Alexander

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Hey Jeremy, I can appreciate the confusion you're going through about your mastering chain. But here's something to consider.... if you've got two almost identical versions of a tune but one's louder, most people pick the louder one. So what you're dealing with is different flavours of loudness that each sound cool in their own way. It's possible that you might hit a combo that finally does the job but from the sounds of it, you don't have the experience to know what's really gonna work. That's not a dis! Just a comment on your situation.

 

Myself, I'm a "have-to-be" masterer, definitely not a wannabe. Given enough budget, I always let a pro do it. Going into a studio with your tracks is not a bad idea at all, if you can afford it. Fresh ears can lend new perspective, which is the same situation with hiring a mastering engineer. As for your 49 tracks, yep, that'll take a while to render as audio files but probably a lot less time than it took you to write the tune. If you go that route, you might also consider dry versions of some tracks to see what the studio can offer. And take along a full mix for reference. And maybe you can get away with mixing stems.

 

But maybe a cheaper alternative is just to take your unmastered mix, book a listening session with a mastering engineer, and get some feedback. He or she might think that the mix is mostly there and that they could work with it. Some changes might be suggested before he goes ahead with the mastering.

 

Another thing to consider is if the tune will always exist in isolation. These days, that's quite possible. But if it's going to be on an album, then the mastering process has to take into consideration where that tune sits with all the others.

 

Hope that helps get you through your mastering frustration. :)

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  • 1 month later...

I'm glad someone is still listening! Thank you for you're feed back! That track took a LOT out of me and the great thing is that I learned a LOT from doing it. Most of all...it's best to keep things simple! Logic's native plugins sound excellent, they don't have to be waves plugs just because that guy that mixed that album used the plugins...it's what sounds the best to "you" I still have so much trouble balancing that bassline & Kickdrum though, I guess i need a subwoofer?

 

Here's to the release of Logic Pro 8! yea, don't we wish? When will apple respond to Ableton Live 6? ooooooh...that's going to take some work...COME ON MAN!!!

 

thanks again for appreciating my art, it really means a lot.

 

J.

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  • 1 month later...
I have been a musician for 3 years starting with FLStudio and graduating to Reason 3.0 and I was considering moving up to Logic. When I heard this song, I made up my mind immediately not to waste anymore time. I'm going to add a Mac with Logic to my studio this year. This song did it for me...it's the most incredible high quality that I've heard in these past several years. What can I say but Wow!
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First off let me say thank you for the kind words! Usually people just pick it apart so much that I end up hating it but I can tell you that A LOT went into making this track, pretty much everything that I've learned so far as advacnced Logic trainer. I used fairly crappy equipment in the production too but mainly Logic's native plugins. You are definitely on the right track. I started with Cool Edit Pro (Adobe Audition) and fruity loops back when it was reeealy fruity...lol...anyhow when reason came out my creativity just let loose, the possibilies were endless. Ease of use and & intuitive interface really attracted me to reason. The whole"instant gratification" thing was definitely a factor in writing some really cool tunes. Unfortunately, reason just has a "sound" you can just tell that a track was made in reason. Over time (in my opinion) you begin to hear the alogorithymic differences in each program from cool edit to reason to ableton live to Logic, and reason can sound very plastic but you can't beat the value! There are distinct differences in the way the programs handle the audio. I would recommend to you Reason for pre-production, Logic for production & tracking and Ableton live for performance & post production. I swear Ableton Live's compressor is SO FAT and gritty, I think it just plain sounds superior to anything that's out there...software wise at least. There are a few key elements to consider, first off, talent & knowledge of MIDI really help. Then if you can COMPLETELY immerse yourself in one thing...do it with LOGIC, you won't be dissapointed, trust me. Take a class if you can! Otherwise getting a Mac is the right thing to do, throughout any production process, no matter how large my comp never gave up, for this song I squeezed EVERYTHING it could muster to the point that I figured I was ready for a G5 in my life. Lastly, if you don't have one already....get yourself a MIDI keyboard like M-Audio whom has some really great gear. There was a plugin I used on the master channel that gave this track some pizzazz! Izotope Ozone, the wet/dry difference was COMPLETLY BLACK & WHITE! that plugin ROCKS!

 

People have a large misconception about Logic...do you have to know how to use a compressor or any of the plugins for that matter? NO! they come with PRESETS baby! I made about 50 of my own presets during this production which most were absolute accidents! great stuff. Same with the ozone plugin!

 

Thanks for writing and keep me up to date with you're progress! =0)

 

JA

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey Jeremy thanks for the tips...yes I'm currently using a Novation K-Station synth as my midi interface with Reason, and it really makes a difference having a nice keyboard with controlled response interacting with the software. What has me interested in Logic Pro is all the fascinating synths that come with the package, and the sound appears to me much cleaner and more dynamic than most soft synth productions. I am having trouble finding sample music done with Logic and Logic alone...I'm planning to use only softsynths rather than record my synth to audio the old traditional way. I started making music completely inside the box and I'm convinced if you know what you are doing there is no need for the extra steps involved with routing midi to a synth and recording the audio, then processing the track, not to mention all the wires and connections. I find Cubase difficult to loop and rather hard to manage a fast paced production. In Reason, I've been able to complete a rather complex song within six to 10 hours start to finish. It's easy to find thousands of Reason songs on various websites such as Reason Station, but can you tell me where I can find Logic Songs? I'm beginning to think such a thing does not exist...and if so...why?

 

Thanks...Jim Kendall (Lost Disciple)

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Yes....I believe Logic has a distinct sound my friend, very clean indeed. HAHA oh yea...you probably wont find any Logic music ....ANYWHERE. That's because there are too many people trying to figure out "how" to use it...rather than actually "using" it. It's a funny thing really. I really believe Apple unlocked Logic's mystery when they acquired it but then again...what exactly have they done to it since? NOT MUCH. THat's pretty sad to say. I'd say the only thing that stands up to Logic's sound is "and don't kill me for saying" ....Ableton Live's compressor when used on the master out. That thing sounds AMAZING! to me...anyways. Creation/DAW wise...you won't find anything else out there that holds a candle but the burnt out PT users and Fruity Loops users who swear by their craft. They all have a sound of their own which is really played out in my opinion...in Logic you have to literally create your own dimensions, which can be frustrating but at the same time gratifying. Unless you're big into sound design...it really comes down to talent regardless what DAW you use in you're creations. I heard this track that blew my frickin' socks off...I got the chance to talk with the artist for an interview and found out it was completely done in FRUITY LOOPS! uhh...no SSL? no Million dollar studio? no...only talent. From that I learned that it comes down to mastering your craft. By the way, if you hear any REALLY good electronic music for example BT - This Binary Universe....scored in Logic, there are a list of users on the forum here somewhere..and the thing is...anything out there that is cutting edge...that is REALLY REALLY impressive...was probably done in Logic. Honestly, if i had the analog gear, i'd stick with it to save processing and introduce that natural noise into my project because it's really pleasing to the ear, the natural harmonics and distortion is what makes for a great sound my man! inside the box can start sounding plastic after a while but you can suffice with enough quality plugs like Vanguard/Novation & stuff...anyone else care to comment?
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  • 4 weeks later...
How long have u been making electronic music?? I've been doing it a year and holy crap... im nowhere near this level. I don;t know if i ever will be at this level this is incredible. I listen to this track all the time and its really an inspiration for me and my music. Keep making your stuff and you'll have a label in no time. Hey man i'd really love to chat with you, maybe get some feedback on some of my songs as well as some tips on how to improve. Maybe i could even help u a little hell who knows. Send me an email at Veitamin@gmail.com. keep on making this s#!+ and keep me updated its incredible.
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How long have u been making electronic music?? I've been doing it a year and holy crap... im nowhere near this level. I don;t know if i ever will be at this level this is incredible. I listen to this track all the time and its really an inspiration for me and my music. Keep making your stuff and you'll have a label in no time. Hey man i'd really love to chat with you, maybe get some feedback on some of my songs as well as some tips on how to improve. Maybe i could even help u a little hell who knows. Send me an email at Veitamin@gmail.com. keep on making this s#!+ and keep me updated its incredible.

 

Hey thanks man, you're comments really mean a lot to me. I've been tinkering with electo since about 1998 beginning with nothing more than cool edit pro, fruity loops & rebirth. So you're appreciation inspires me! I can honestly say though, it's not that i'm a Logic freak though it may seem but I try to learn a bit from every program, from reason to Ableton Live & anything else I can learn from just listening to good music. The best thing I ever learned to do is when to call it quits after working on a song for too long. It was quoted earlier in this posting that "if it sounds good, it probably is" and I have actually stuck by that and it has paid off ten fold. I can't see myself releasing 8-10 songs because I put so much thought into one song, trying to keep it simple (though it never ends up that way) lol.

So I'll check out your site tonight and let you know what I think, in the mean time...what tools are you using to compose. Hats off to you if you're only using Logic but then again...I can't really say if anyone on this forum composes, edits, mixes & masters completely in Logic...if it were a perfect world. I respect all tools people use as long as they aren't strangling music with loops. I do enjoy the random aspect of some of my favorite songs, which is what I'm working toward. The best thing I can tell you first off is....KEEP IT SIMPLE! & WHEN YOU HAVE AN IDEA...CREATE IT NOW! SAVE IT AND PUT IT TO SLEEP. (actually you're closer to this level than you think & I may be able to help you realize that)

 

We'll chat soon and next month I'm planning on dropping another bomb using some really cool new software & sounds I've gathered. Who knows where we'll end up?

 

until next time.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Hey thanks man, you're comments really mean a lot to me. I've been tinkering with electo since about 1998 beginning with nothing more than cool edit pro, fruity loops & rebirth. So you're appreciation inspires me! I can honestly say though, it's not that i'm a Logic freak though it may seem but I try to learn a bit from every program, from reason to Ableton Live & anything else I can learn from just listening to good music. The best thing I ever learned to do is when to call it quits after working on a song for too long. It was quoted earlier in this posting that "if it sounds good, it probably is" and I have actually stuck by that and it has paid off ten fold. I can't see myself releasing 8-10 songs because I put so much thought into one song, trying to keep it simple (though it never ends up that way) lol.

So I'll check out your site tonight and let you know what I think, in the mean time...what tools are you using to compose. Hats off to you if you're only using Logic but then again...I can't really say if anyone on this forum composes, edits, mixes & masters completely in Logic...if it were a perfect world. I respect all tools people use as long as they aren't strangling music with loops. I do enjoy the random aspect of some of my favorite songs, which is what I'm working toward. The best thing I can tell you first off is....KEEP IT SIMPLE! & WHEN YOU HAVE AN IDEA...CREATE IT NOW! SAVE IT AND PUT IT TO SLEEP. (actually you're closer to this level than you think & I may be able to help you realize that)

 

We'll chat soon and next month I'm planning on dropping another bomb using some really cool new software & sounds I've gathered. Who knows where we'll end up?

 

until next time.

 

yeah i only use logic actually, maybe its holding me back who knows. i used to be strait up gb but i just recently moved up back in october. best move i ever made. i do use some plug-ins etc but who doesnt. i appreciate your help in the future and keep it up. 9 years is a lot of time working on something to just quit now.

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love the tune jay!

 

her voice is a perfect blend with your music.

 

vocals are sit perfect in the mix.

 

and yes, the ozone is a processor whore (although now that I'm at 4 GBs of ram, i can use the ozone on really any track (vocals, main mix, whatever, and I'm still okay. so... maybe look into some more ram).

 

mix sounds great too. you could tighten up the kick a little more and make it a tad more punchy during the parts where its really driving and kicking. good God that'll do wonders for those dance whores!

 

great job. did I mention that already?

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