B6 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Is anyone else getting "memory low" messages? I keep getting these on certain tunes, sometimes followed by a crash. I have a pretty hype system, and never had this issue on L8. Mac Pro, 8 core, 16 gigs ram. 10.5.7... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.D. Jackson Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I, too am getting this and am utterly perplexed. I have a brand new nehelem mac pro with 12 gigs of RAM. I'm using Kontakt 3.5 with KMS enabled, plus EXS24 for the vast majority of my instruments and am not loading anywhere near 12 gigs (or even 4 gigs) with my template.. - robjohn99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B6 Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 I, too am getting this and am utterly perplexed. I have a brand new nehelem mac pro with 12 gigs of RAM. I'm using Kontakt 3.5 with KMS enabled, plus EXS24 for the vast majority of my instruments and am not loading anywhere near 12 gigs (or even 4 gigs) with my template..- robjohn99 I'm not certain - but it seems that certain instruments make this happen (or contribute greatly to it). MOTU "keys" and NI "electrik piano" were used in one tune that was doing this. When I deinstanciated them the problem went away. Lord knows how many plugs make L9 unhappy as of yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.D. Jackson Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I'll have to test this further. Other possible candidates (plug-ins in my template I'm using besides EXS24 and Kontakt 3.5): Ivory (latest version) Trilogy Wrapper (which we all know is pretty flakey to begin with) Strum Electric GS-1 EZ Drummer Stylus RMX I'm curious if anyone knows if any of the above in particular might contribute to the "Low Memory" warning disproportionately? - robjohn99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markedmondson Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I'll have to test this further. Other possible candidates (plug-ins in my template I'm using besides EXS24 and Kontakt 3.5):Ivory (latest version) Trilogy Wrapper (which we all know is pretty flakey to begin with) Strum Electric GS-1 EZ Drummer Stylus RMX I'm curious if anyone knows if any of the above in particular might contribute to the "Low Memory" warning disproportionately? - robjohn99 I have noticed that my low-memory messages start to appear when I load up Stylus. Even if the timeline is empty. Also, if I run NI Guitar Rig, I get a :05-:10 audio dropout about once every 2-3 minutes. Also have found that Soundflower seems to contribute, for me, to the audio dropout problem. Uninstalling it seemed to buy me a little bit of time, but by the time my sequence has >4 tracks, the dropouts increase exponentially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bscenefilms Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I use EZDrummer extensively and have not see any issue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cali316 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I have noticed that my low-memory messages start to appear when I load up Stylus. I get the exact same thing every time I load Omnisphere - and I'm talkin with only 2-3 instances. Never happened in LP8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickweston Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Brand new MacPro Quad 2.26 /w 16g RAM and getting memory messages in sessions not much bigger than what I ran on my old G5 Dual 2.0....hmmmm Oceanway Drums takes up a lot, but when I added 4 Kontaks that was it. Can't be right... Crashes, and also go the "the document xxxxx could not be saved" a couple of times. Half the time I get a "do you want to save because I'm crashing" message. Haven't put in SL yet...hoping that will help but this doesn't seem right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B6 Posted September 1, 2009 Author Share Posted September 1, 2009 Brand new MacPro Quad 2.26 /w 16g RAM and getting memory messages in sessions not much bigger than what I ran on my old G5 Dual 2.0....hmmmm Oceanway Drums takes up a lot, but when I added 4 Kontaks that was it. Can't be right... Crashes, and also go the "the document xxxxx could not be saved" a couple of times. Half the time I get a "do you want to save because I'm crashing" message. Haven't put in SL yet...hoping that will help but this doesn't seem right. It's definitely a big bug with third parties - afraid to put in snow leopard - in the middle of a project, could be disaster. but if I keep having the issue on other tracks I'm working on (and others report it improving under SL) I may risk it. Please let me know if you install SL and anything changes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.D. Jackson Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 >I have noticed that my low-memory messages start to appear when I load up >Stylus. Even if the timeline is empty. Interesting. Does anyone if this is a problem others have reported to Spectrasonics and, if a known problem, they have addressed it (or discussed it) at all? - robjohn99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.D. Jackson Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 As a test, I loaded in a template originally created in Logic 8 into Logic 9. It included lots of Kontakt 3.5, EXS, plus EZDrummer, Ivory, the Trilogy Wrapper and Stylus RMX. All loaded, my Virtual Memory was at 3.86 (Real at 2.07), hence the Low Memory Warnings I've been getting. The interesting thing occurred when I did the following: Original memory of template created in Logic 8 loaded into Logic 9: VM: 3.86 Real: 2.07 Memory after removing instance of Ivory Piano originally created in Logic 8: VM: 3.32 Real: 1.52 Memory after RE-INSTANTIATING Ivory Piano in the same template from within Logic 9: VM: 3.38 Real 2.07 This appears to suggest that I've gained .48 Gigs or 480 MBs of Virtual Memory (thus reducing the chances of the "Low Memory Warning"), just by removing an instance of a memory-hogging plug-in originally installed when in Logic 8, and then re-installing it in Logic 9. (for the record I tried the same "trick" with Stylus RMX, EZ Drummer and Trilogy Wrapper and noticed no noticeable VM gains). Can anyone confirm that this is actually a useful "trick" and that it does what I think it does? - robjohn99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickweston Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 wow...just dropped about 6k in new MacPro, cards, etc...running LP9.... now all these memory issues! Had a session that kept warning me that memory was low. Had a few EXS-24s, 3 Kontakts and 8 East-West Plays open for a horn section. I bounced the horns and removed the 8 Play plugins, but still got the same messages. So I closed the session and opened it again, hoping things would get better. Nope. Had a singer and guitar player, and basically had to save after every pass, as crashes started happening, and even though I got the "hey, I'm gonna crash now, but you'll get a chance to save your project as "xxxxx.crashed,"" I never did. Where's the love? Where's the joy?!!! So the science project of tracing this all down begins...I had this fantasy that after upgrading all my hardware, going to LP9 and re-installing everything from scratch that I'd have a Ferrari, but instead it seems I have more problems than I did with my G5 and LP8! By the way, I have 16g of ram.... Will pore over these posts and begin the process of elimination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B6 Posted September 1, 2009 Author Share Posted September 1, 2009 wow...just dropped about 6k in new MacPro, cards, etc...running LP9.... now all these memory issues! Had a session that kept warning me that memory was low. Had a few EXS-24s, 3 Kontakts and 8 East-West Plays open for a horn section. I bounced the horns and removed the 8 Play plugins, but still got the same messages. So I closed the session and opened it again, hoping things would get better. Nope. Had a singer and guitar player, and basically had to save after every pass, as crashes started happening, and even though I got the "hey, I'm gonna crash now, but you'll get a chance to save your project as "xxxxx.crashed,"" I never did. Where's the love? Where's the joy?!!! So the science project of tracing this all down begins...I had this fantasy that after upgrading all my hardware, going to LP9 and re-installing everything from scratch that I'd have a Ferrari, but instead it seems I have more problems than I did with my G5 and LP8! By the way, I have 16g of ram.... Will pore over these posts and begin the process of elimination. It's probably the Kontakts - I never had any issues with this no matter how many instanciations of anything in L8. I'm actually considering moving to Snow Leopard next week to see if it fixes the problem, but was waiting for someone else to try first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.s.greenier Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Unfortunately it's simply a Logic 32-bit issue - once Logic gets to 4GB of Virtual Memory it will crash. Essentially the amount of RAM will only show performance gains in other areas, but currently Logic CANNOT utilize all your RAM for loading plugins and samples, EXS is supposed to be able to, but that's up in the air.. read on. Each plugin uses some VM, and then if you load samples within plugins they of course also use Logic's VM. The only plugin that I know of to date that can get around this is Kontakt 3.5 - (and the new Battery update as well) as it loads all samples in it's own memory space "outside" of Logic. The plugin itself WILL use some of Logic's VM, but compared to K3 and K2.5 - each K3.5 plugin instance barely uses anything. EXS is "supposed" to load samples into it's own memory space separate from Logic but this doesn't always seem to be the case, see: http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=44519&highlight= & http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=44330&highlight= Until Logic is 64-bit, we simply have to hope that more companies build 64-bit memory addressing into their plugins so that we don't have to use Logic's VM. This is mainly a concern for plugins like Stylus, Omnisphere, Superior / EZ drummer... things that load a large amount of samples. This is why I was hoping LP9 would be 64-bit, or at least that we'd see a 64-bit update with the appearance of Snow Leopard, I'm thinking it will be another year... which is much too long. LP9 is great, but keep in mind that it also has a larger memory footprint then LP8... the posts from the links above detail this... but from my testing LP9 uses 0.7GB MORE then LP8... with my default "empty" template. That's a lot more and essentially renders LP9 useless for me with larger orchestral projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plowman Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Thanks for your work, Mr. Greenier. Could you clarify something for me? As we keep an eye on Activity Monitor, attempting to load larger templates, is it the Real Memory or Virtual Memory that is at risk? Also, is this now officially acknowledged by Apple? Are we in group-wait mode for it to be fixed, or do they still maintain that EXS loads plus 4 GB as advertised? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashermusic Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Thanks for your work, Mr. Greenier. Could you clarify something for me? As we keep an eye on Activity Monitor, attempting to load larger templates, is it the Real Memory or Virtual Memory that is at risk? Also, is this now officially acknowledged by Apple? Are we in group-wait mode for it to be fixed, or do they still maintain that EXS loads plus 4 GB as advertised? Thanks in advance. The EXS24 DOES load past the 4 gig, it is simply not accurately reflected in Activity Monitor at a certain point. You can load lots of them and quite a lot of K 3.5 also. The problem comes when you try to add things like Omnisphere to a project loaded with EXS24s. Apple is aware of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.s.greenier Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Thanks for your work, Mr. Greenier. Could you clarify something for me? As we keep an eye on Activity Monitor, attempting to load larger templates, is it the Real Memory or Virtual Memory that is at risk? Also, is this now officially acknowledged by Apple? Are we in group-wait mode for it to be fixed, or do they still maintain that EXS loads plus 4 GB as advertised? Thanks in advance. You're looking at the Virtual Memory in activity monitor... Logic will typically start acting strange the closer you get to 4GB... and crash right at 4GB. The problem with EXS is not that it won't load more than 4GB, but that it will actually load into Logic's internal memory BEFORE it loads externally. I've seen this up to about 3.5GB VM... at which point you can load more and more EXS instruments and Logic's VM will stay the same. So essentially EXS is using up memory that would be better used on other 3rd party plugins... instead of just loading entirely outside of Logic like Kontakt 3.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plowman Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Thanks guys. Got it finally. And that explains why Ivory must elbow its way into memory. It further explains memory warnings in 9. Jay, are you saying that Activity Monitor does not register the over 4 GB loads even in the pie chart or the Wired / Active / Used read-outs? That sounds like off-balance sheet expenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashermusic Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Thanks for your work, Mr. Greenier. Could you clarify something for me? As we keep an eye on Activity Monitor, attempting to load larger templates, is it the Real Memory or Virtual Memory that is at risk? Also, is this now officially acknowledged by Apple? Are we in group-wait mode for it to be fixed, or do they still maintain that EXS loads plus 4 GB as advertised? Thanks in advance. You're looking at the Virtual Memory in activity monitor... Logic will typically start acting strange the closer you get to 4GB... and crash right at 4GB. The problem with EXS is not that it won't load more than 4GB, but that it will actually load into Logic's internal memory BEFORE it loads externally. I've seen this up to about 3.5GB VM... at which point you can load more and more EXS instruments and Logic's VM will stay the same. So essentially EXS is using up memory that would be better used on other 3rd party plugins... instead of just loading entirely outside of Logic like Kontakt 3.5. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashermusic Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Thanks guys. Got it finally. And that explains why Ivory must elbow its way into memory. It further explains memory warnings in 9. Jay, are you saying that Activity Monitor does not register the over 4 GB loads even in the pie chart or the Wired / Active / Used read-outs? That sounds like off-balance sheet expenses. Lol! Yes, that is how it appears to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David T Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Very informative thread - Thanks. 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevaquarian Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Unfortunately it's simply a Logic 32-bit issue - once Logic gets to 4GB of Virtual Memory it will crash. Essentially the amount of RAM will only show performance gains in other areas, but currently Logic CANNOT utilize all your RAM for loading plugins and samples, EXS is supposed to be able to, but that's up in the air.. read on. (some not copied over) LP9 is great, but keep in mind that it also has a larger memory footprint then LP8... the posts from the links above detail this... but from my testing LP9 uses 0.7GB MORE then LP8... with my default "empty" template. That's a lot more and essentially renders LP9 useless for me with larger orchestral projects. OK - There's at least one thing I don't get here. Could someone who really understands this situation well be kind enough to clue me up on a few bits please? 1. Why does Logic max out the VM while there is still boat loads of real RAM headroom left before the 3.5GB 32-bit RAM limit? (see attached) I guess I don't fully understand VM? 2. If the difference in RAM footprint is only 700MB approx then why am I getting memory problems WAY more in L9 for similar weight projects than I was in L8 and even 7.2.3? 700MB doesn't seem enough to make the difference it appears to make since switching to 9? IN fact I used to run MUCH heavier projects in L7 and L8 without a hitch on the RAM front....? 3. Maybe this is all out the window once we've all taken the plunge and gone to SL with 64-bit RAM address access, but not all users can go to 64 bit with their present systems so it's still a fundamental issue to be resolved? VM maxed without using the actual RAM available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Sandvik Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 4GB is the theoretical limit of VM, does not mean that in real life you get that amount due to all kinds of overheads in the runtime... 3.2 is a more practical level. Also if wired (fixed memory) is taken up, you could get into VM problems even earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevaquarian Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Thanks for that! There's another thread on this issue where it's emerging that L9 does appear to have RAM management issues. I'm certainly experiencing some unprecedented stuff at the moment! http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=48417&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=logic++memory&start=20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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